Roadtoad's theory on Kote gaeshi

No, your alpha male addiction is as hard an addiction as any drug.
You get 'off' when you trigger me. Notice how you get this big 'rush' when you read my posts, and immediately alter them, in your mind, to the cartoon caricature that you have of me?
Everything you say about me degenerates into the 'he could do this, I could do that' sort of thing.
And still, you have not posted what you would do in the knife fighting situation.
Why not?
Are you afraid that someone might criticize you the way you criticize me?

 

That would require some degree of thought being put into what you've posted. I gave that up soon after you joined the forum.

 

Aikido:- outside omote evasion + technique[kote-gaesh, irimi-nage,kokyo-nage] + principle of unbalance/kusushi opponent [most important]. Important point is to align opponent to your advantage to destroy his centre of balance - in this case knife disarm is fairly extreme, requiring significant skill (which I doubt I have to execute for real.)

FMA:- forward or rear footwork triangle evasion and destroy the weapon arm at medial distance before closing e.g. crossada knife-hand snatch with limb destruction to under-side of elbow at the same time. In a more advanced application (currently practicing when home in Scotland, but beyond my current automatic reflex) is a controlled contact capture along the lines that Rebel was advocating by a seasoned professional or 'Guru'.

I know Im stlll just 1 or 2 feet away from guru , so if worst came to worst, and escape was not an option [in a crowded bar, public transport, lift etc] - Id still go for deep outside evasion and automatic projection of whole knife-arm away and outwards with simultaneous low short kick to back of legs and simultaneous sharp and sudden attacks from both hands to neck area (a touch of crossada in it.) Must take elbow away with the evasion as part of the setup to project knife-arm outwards away from danger.

Nearest principle I could tie it to would be 'Tiger Embrace Head' application from TaiChiChuan.

This assumes a single non-retracting thrust (unrealistic) and is exceptionally dangerous.

Major aspect is not to make contact with blade - hence evasion.

Others will have their opinions. Open to all criticism.

We dont hate you Toad, we just dont believe yet another load of mystery-man waffle. There are far too many who come here spouting bog-rot. At best, you have embellished quite a bit of your background.

 

Give me your best shot at critique

 

roadtoad, I think the above post you made is the post in this thread that caused the landslide of negative remarks.

People were just wanting more background on the experience itself. Was the person really just trying to scare you or test you out and wasn't really trying to kill you? Why did it break off? What was going through your mind at the time, what about afterwards?

It actually isn't facts, it is an insight in the experience itself.

 

embra, do you recall koyo stating that he engages the elbow by striking the knife arm to the side or into the attacker and with his other hand he would hammer fist the attacker (atemi)? Then he would do whatever technique came (unlimited response, not set on a particular technique, just do whatever comes).

This is similar to pinning the elbow and climbing the tree in FMA, then following up with whatever comes.

I don't think the techniques are necessarily all that different between FMA and Aikido, IME. However, I think you are on to something about the footwork being different. Aikido technique is done on the move, I think the phrase is "wash through". So do not get hit, align the body, strike through a kuzushi. Wash through the enemy like a fire hose through a wet piece of paper.

 

yes, I pack, for my wife, 9mm walther. sucker is as light as a toy. Also use slingshot with big bbs, This goes back to the reservation, we had all kinds of 'non standard' weapons, to include the two handed man club, as lethal as a katana, the greatest edged weapon of all time.
California is about ready to go 'off', already, 70% of all crime in california is black on white crime.
I want to say that none of you have ever seen Saito's original sayu-nage. Because his knees were so bad, he couldn't do it himself when he got older. Against katatatori, he would use three distinctive moves, the second, would be, if you take this film, as the tori turns in, Saito would only drop his elbow, and use it to actually lead uke.
Ueshiba authorised this move.The third move would be behind uke as usual, but his way made it easier to get in 'deeper'
In his thirties, Saito was even much bigger than you ever saw him, maybe well above 300 pounds. His wrist was about the size of a 2 liter bottle. He got that way by swinging railroad ties, he had a friend dowel one end down so you could grip them. Those suckers weighted about 80 pounds. I couldn't even make one good overhead stroke with one.
Oh, and his teeth were horrible, he wiggled his lips around all the time. After he got the false teeth he looked like a new man.

 

Again, you alter my meaning. I knew koyo passed away, you just posted one of his posts, and I answered it.
And also, you guys are 'the cult of the personality' That shihan you liked claimed much more amazing things about osensei than I did, you didn't put him down for it.
And, that 'turn and run like crazy'? That comes from my filipino guro. Again, I'm sure you're not going to go against him

 

I do indeed remember this quote from koyo; wise, sobering and experienced words as ever.

Somewhere in koyo's many well thought-out posts on the subject matter, he talks of going for the man, rather than the weapon. Koyo's words may have been influenced by Aikido, but essentially it is practicality that he describes in this context. Personally I attach in Aikido terms, your quoted words of koyo, to irimi-nage more than anything else.

To a relative novice (Im quite happy like that - its a lot more difficult to become complacent that way) like myself, this essentially means evading with deep entry, neutralising elbow and immediate finishing attack.

In my mind, the FMA way (the simple version) is slightly different due to climbing the tree - to neutralise the weapon as the primary objective, with follow-up actions; with the consequence that getting to the target area of the close-range may be a bit slower, but danger is neutralised due to limb destruction - along the branches.

What I did encounter in simple version FMA, was that multiple strikes and defences were always possible without years of practise. The more complex hand switching contact control - which comes out of double stick drills as far as I can see; takes a lot longer to develop at even simple level.

In the thread on 'atemi as a subordinate strike', I suggested trying to combine these approaches, without explicitly stating the case.

For the artificial purposes of internet-fu in this thread; the examples with Aikido and FMA are hypothetical and as ever are at best; no more than a training drill template.

The single thrust is not being realistic, but it keeps discussion relatively simple.

Some may remember koyo and others talking of sewing machine knife attacks.

30 thrusts being blocked? No chance.

 

There are many people who contribute to MAP who have trained with various Shihan of all styles of Aikido. everyone of these people does not hide behind BS. Unless you can back some of your claims with hard evidence, people will not take you serious. Many senior yudansha use MAP, all of these are known with a credible lineage.

 

What'd'ya mean,
'neither have you',
where did that come from?I was in Saito's school, he taught it to me in probably 1964.

 

No.. he didn't

 

o.k., here's Saito performing rote dori sayu-nage when he was older. When he was younger, he would lower himself more on the second part of the move, going down almost to kneeling sometimes

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgIcPJYY9Qs"]YouTube - Morote Dori, Morihiro Saito Sensei[/ame]

 

Sorry, I mean morote dori. His idea on the second part of the move was to only lower your elbow, stepping back and down, almost to kneeling, this was used to lead uke along, then, on part three, he would complete the throw.
He was very insistent on dividing the throw into three parts.

 

What evidence do you have to support the claim you were deshi of saito sensei in the 1960's?

I ask because for someone who supposedly had the honour of receiving personal tuition from arguably the most knowledgeable aikidoka in the world, your technical expression of the discipline is some where in the region of that of a kyu grade... because that's how it's coming across

Are you simply expecting us to take your word for it?

 

He is trying to pretend to be BOB NADEAU I THINK

 

So your either claiming to be this guy or met him?

http://www.cityaikido.com/nadeau.html