The only issue i had was tekkengod stated the best way was to get in the cage and fight, which is hardly the only approach to self defense, and im my eyes not even the best. I'd say continuous sparring; multiple opponents; weapons; no rounds, times or refs; the only way out being loosing or winning. Wearing full padding (head/face/body and/or limbs) would allow for more hard training, especially when weapons are involved. The only issue I have with ring/cage fighting is that it’s supposedly the best for real fighting, yet there are so many rules. For sport is absolutely necessary, but if you want self-defense what is the reason or point of rounds and refs etc? I would say a mix of ‘alive’ training in various environments without rounds, rings or refs etc is a closer representation. In Wing Chun for example we train 3 on 1, and while i'm dealing with one person, the other(s) will try to hit me. We also train against a wall, which is what i mean my diffrent enviroments - cramped spaces etc. Because MMA fights have rounds, you can use these to your advantage as you know you will get the chance to recuperate, which is quite useful if you’re loosing at that point, but not if you have the upper hand. And if things get out of hand, the ref can simply stop the fight. This just doesn’t happen in a real fight. Just as there are realistic elements to cage/ring righting, there are just as many unrealistic elements. It's a shame these don’t get pointed out. But that being said, the main different (in my eyes), no matter how to dress up the training - ref or no ref, ring or no ring, rounds or no rounds etc - is the mentality approach. In training no one is ever going to aim to hurt you. It's probably surprising how many people would crumble under real pressure. After you've been tested in an actual fight a couple of times, under real pressures, only then can you say it works, until then its all just theory, no matter how you train. And, yes, that does include my training too.
LOL, the psych nurse bit was on the other thread. Anyway, I've made all the points I've got to make. If you've not understood them, well, I guess all those knocks to the head during sparring do take their toll.
Psin: admittedly Ikken was sarcastic. Bear in mind that you're both posting mainly for the benefit of other people on the forum, both when you agree and when you disagree with each other when posting. Homer: I am glad that in WC they do 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 training. It's one art I was thinking of taking up in the next few months. Ikken: I am glad that you do some of the stuff in sparring that you described in you reply to my last post in this thread. If you asked two people to go in the ring with you to spar once a week, would it be allowed where you train? Would you consider it? Not that I want you to have to work harder, and I understand that fighting is rare (I've had too many, probably because I've been in Britain or used to hang around dodgy places even at home at night, ), but I like the idea of people being ready. Hey it could be worse. This could be a thread about which side to face forward!
nice way to ignore everything I said. Well, its not my gym, and really that would be cutting into other fighters time as well as my coaches. not to mention putting me at an unneccessary risk (I would NOT want to recieve a blind side punch from some of the tanks at my gym) gotta remember, it is a sport first, self defense second. fighters at our gym often have to fight on very short notice and I dont think they would appreciate cutting time out of their routine for something like that.
A bit too much hyperbole for me. Sure there are dangerous people, but a little common sense and precaution will help in avoiding them in the first place. You should feel confident in your martial art, it's ignorance and cocky behaviour that's going to get you in trouble.
Exactly the same thread with the same points exists under general discussions, that's not going anywhere either. As this isn't a kung fu topic it would probably be a good idea to close this one.
Actually the first several pages of this thread were quite good, and should certainly be nominated for "sticky" status, IMHO.
the only way you are going to know if you training works is by the doing... with sport systems encounters feed back into training pretty readily but for NHB systems encounters are somewhat rarer. the psychological issues raised by the RBSD crowd are real but then again they are not too dissimilar in actually facing a competition fight for a new practitioner of kick boxing or the like... the differences between the rig and the street are enormous but the experience or feeing can be quite similar especially for a virgin non-fighter who took up MAs because he/she was scared in the first place. thats why a ring fight with a stranger even just once is probably good training for those interested in conquering their fear of the "real thing" and trainin some self defense system.. technically there will be a lot of differences between how you fight under some sports rules and how you can fight NHB but it is not this component that is the important lesson I am not sure I buy this "not now kato" stuff where your coach or teacher attacks you by surprise. the mindset may only exists in the training environment and secondly situations tend to develop anyway. Boris London
Finally my account was validated. I been reading this thread while I was waiting. As far as the "street" is concerned, yeah it doesn't exist and the term is supposed to represent all different kinds of environments. I live in the heart of Baltimore, so let me inform you of what "street" is like here. I attend a university, and at this university, the security department posts up security bulletins everywhere when a student, affliate of the school, or civilian in the surrounding areas gets attacked. Never have I seen a report saying that one person attacked another person empty handed. They all have guns and knives. And usually there's two or three of the attackers. This being said, there's nothing you can do. Its either you hand over your crap or you die. Two students (separate incidents) in the last two years attempted to fight back against their assailants. They were killed. I was really naiive in terms of my martial arts training four years ago. I thought disarming people with weapons and fighting off hordes of enemies was possible. For most of us, its not. No matter what kind of training you have, you will die on Baltimore streets if you try anything. Someone posted something earlier on this thread (or on a different one somewhere on this forum) that people who use guns don't really intend to use them, only for intimidation - to accept this as general principle is really retarded. People, at least here, will not hesitate to kill you. That being said, going back to this thread's question posted by Matt Bernius (what's up Bernie, nice to see you here too), I don't think there are any alternative resistance training that can help you for the street. I don't think cage fighting can help you either when you're looking down the barrel of a .45. There's alot of testosterone being thrown around here, MMA vs traditional deadly techniques, rules in the cage vs. rules on the street. I just wanted to say in the midst of all the argument to please be careful when you are out there... you could get yourself and anyone you're with killed.
Myabe in america thats true but Ive had trouble with unarmed people 3 times and once I was threatened with what looked like a police batton, on top of that non of my friends have been in trouble except with people who where unarmed as well so as far as Im concerned unarmed stuff is still a legitimate form of self defence for me.
We don't have much of a problem with Gun crime in the UK. It is rare, more frequent in some areas, but still uncommon. We do have a growing problem with kids carrying knives though.
This is sooooo silly. I've been to Baltimore for tournements 3 times and enjoyed the night life afterwards each time. The streets there aren't any worse than the streets anywhere else. I grew up in one of the worst parts of Boston (Fields Corner in Dorchester to be precise) and I had plenty of street fights and I won most of them. I also lived in a suburb for many years and when it comes to street fights there wasn't much of a difference. I knew people in the city who couldn't fight at all and people from the burbs who could take just about anyone. What's fake about the street is thinking everyone has a weapon, everyone has a gang of friends waiting to jump you, or that it is the birthright of every inner city kid to be the toughest, badest mofo your every going to meet. 90% of all street fights are just regular fights with regular people and regular circumstances! Whats real about the street is that they aren't going to grapple, box, or kickbox with you. They are going to fight as cheap and dirty as they can and do what ever is easiest and what ever it takes to win including bite, eye guage, kick or knee the groin, pull your shirt over your head ect. ect. ect. They are going to do this by instinct. If your interested in self defense you should be trained to be aware of this and if your smart you should be ready to do the same.That's all most people are talking about when the talk about street fights and self defense. It's people like you who make up the street myths so you can sound all insightful and street wise when you tear your own myths down. As for schools teaching knife, gun and other weapon defenses and disarms one should know that if a weapon is used to rob you that you should give the guy what he wants. On the other hand if someone is looking to hurt or kill you and you have no chioce but to fight back that you are better off knowing what your trying to do than just randomly fumbling around trying to get a weapon away from someone.
Yeash I think Id sooner try to work out on the fly how to apply techniques against wepoons to someone attacking me barehanded than to do the reverse.
Great points 19thLohan. Eternal, I have to disagree as well. In fact concern about weapons is an even better reason for resistance training. A large component of my study is specifically geared to the resistance training of weapons situations (I've been worked over by sticks and shot with simunition rounds). And it's critical to understand what can and can't be done with weapons. - Matt
And any instructor worth his salt will train as such, at least in my opinion. A good part of self-defense is common sense. If I can walk away from a situation minus some cash and a few cedit cards I can cancel after I call the cops, I'm going to take on an armed robber why? Having said that, I agree that if you have no choice, fight back. MAtt, I would love to hear more about the simulation bullets! We use simulation knives and guns, but I've never been shot at, although I have fired several weapons before. And any answer as to making this a sticky?
You've been here three times. I've lived here almost 5 years. There are a couple nice places in Baltimore - the Inner Harbor, Little Italy. I highly doubt they would hold a tournament in the ghetto that makes up a good chunk of this city. We've had two student homicides and three student non fatal stabbings in the last two years. Baltimore has one of the highest crime rates as well as homicide numbers in the country (although it is getting better). Outside the WC school I used to go to, gang shootings occur regularly, and two officers were killed during one weekend. Yea when you compare it to the slums of a city. Chicago, NY, LA, they all have similar streets. First off, I want to say that I agreed with the contention that there is no "street." I agree that this is a label for all sorts of environments. I know that not every fight out there includes a gun or multiple attackers and that walking around paranoid is just plain stupid. What I was trying to get at with my post is that these crazy dangerous "myths" as you call them do exist. I know, I lived in it for 5 years, and I don't think taking a pleasure trip to the finer parts of Bmore thrice would reveal these "myths." And the fact that you say I'm making this up is a disservice to the people who died here, to the people that get hurt, raped, or worse in this city. And if you still don't believe that its like this here, then I can always try to post up all security reports that I can. Not trying to say that I know the streets or that I've suffered through a Vietnam hellhole and that none of you would understand true self defense. I was just trying to say "be careful."
First I had a good look around the city when I was there and I saw plenty of the bad parts. Yes crimes and violence exist there and everywhere else but your claim that "You will die on the streets of Baltimore if you try anything" is way over the top! Regardless of how many newspaper clippings or security reports you have there are about a hundred plain old fights for every one that puts somebody in the hospital and alot more for every one that ends in death. Most fist fights simply don't make the paper. Telling people to use common sense and not attack a guy with a gun if he's asking for your wallet is fine but telling people to never try to fight back in the street isn't. Sometimes your risking your life more if you don't fight back.
This says it all. BTW, I've seen the slummier parts of B'More, NYC and Philly... I gotta agree, not fun places to visit.
good points, but I feel around here its too hard to tell the potentially fatal vs the normal fistfighting scenarios - perhaps I am a little biased b/c people I saw every morning in class ended up killed. anyway, sorry for hijacking your thread Bernius. Back to alternative resistance training - my school also does mass attack sparring drills. We've done up to the whole class vs. one. Also do the circle self defense thing where someone randomly comes in at a person in the center and does some sort of grab/choke etc.
