Resistance Testing of Your Art

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Matt_Bernius, May 15, 2005.

  1. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Not from here but lived here quite a while. Yeah that good ol chao-daofu tastes great but smells like ass. :eek:

    Just a pointer.. is the qoute function when responding to people's questions in the forum is your going to include their text... when it's all run together it's to hard to read so many people skip it.

    It the button in the 'advanced' mode of posting that looks like a small cartoon voice bubble. :D

    Back to topic.
  2. muttsnuts

    muttsnuts New Member

    I totally and utterly agree. Whoever said there was no such thing as the street was dead wrong! "The STREET tm", refers merely to an anything goes environment, outside a dojo, UFC cage, refereed, ruled environment. In short, it is outside the pub, when the drunk moron wants to start something, or the idiot trying to prove something to his mates/girfriend. THAT is the street. Fighting in a cage is fine "if" you're a professional fighter. In that case, you'll "own" most people! Jesus people, use your common sense in applying this ideal. I HAVE been in fights, in every single last case, it was always a drunken fool seeking to do the afore mentioned. In each case, I hit first, hard and fast applying some of the things I learn in Wing Chun. And survived unscathed. MOST trouble people encounter will be in that type of situation. Not attacked by some UFC bloke with an attitude.

    In my class, we do extensive pad work. One guy wears the pads, and the other fights bare knuckle, and we learn our punching range, how to hit, hard and fast. Remember, it only takes a pound or two of pressure to fracture a nose. Most people that have that done to them, will be in too much pain to go on, admittedly not all. Also, big "hay-makers" style punches are easy to spot coming. The guy wearing the pads will be swinging them back, thus making sure that we are aware of ranging punches coming in. It's done at full pelt, and I've been clonked in the face a few times. Some times I get a good block in, sometimes I miss, but my bodies not in the firing line, sometimes I've been hit.

    Honestly guys, talk about taking everything to the extreme, "fight in the UFC" type answers are all very well and good...If you like competitions. If you really want to combat test your art, get into a fight outside a pub/club, while out and about, wherever. I personally hate fighting, only 2 or 3 times in the last 5 or 6 years, always the wrong place at the wrong time etc... "Most", not all but most guys on the street aren't fighters. Nor are they fit. They are more often than not, drunk. That, is the average competion to be tested against.
  3. mididoctors

    mididoctors Valued Member

    this sparring thing only goes so far... even if you practice some form of MMA or full contact sparring..

    the introduction of the unknown is what makes things closer to a encounter with no rules.

    this unknown issue can be simulated quite well by some sort of match such as a MMA bout with someone from another school or such like...

    I disagree with attitudes that full contact only takes place with those you already know as this removes the cold bloodiness from the encounter..

    other than that you can always go for the real thing

    the desire to know if you can really do it is in the doing

  4. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    please dont take tekkengods evangelical ranting as any kind of representation of most MMA people- Anyone will tell you its the person and the method that count, not the style.
  5. Bil Gee

    Bil Gee Thug

    Good suggestion but it might be worth mentioning that the price-tag that comes with that could be:
    • maiming someone
    • killing someone
    • getting beaten to a pulp
    • getting killed
    • getting arrested
    • loosing your job
    • going to court
    • going to jail and becoming some big fat sweaty psychopaths puppy for 15 years.
    • appearing on national TV making a total pillock of yourself getting a well deserved kicking by a group of lads for picking a fight with someone.
    I'm sure I've missed a few other important ones.
    Last edited: May 17, 2005
  6. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    and thats what we are talking about here. and if you want to effectively and accurately pressure test your art. then i suggest you get in the cage.

    you know a better way short of starting a brawl with a random guy on the street?
  7. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Exactly Ikken... So I know you compete. What do you do to train beyond that? Any other ideas about resistance tactics.

    Ok... so then what do you do? We all admit that neither goes all the way. Does that really matter in the grand scheme?

    An art or a person? Any btw... when's your next scheduled cage fight?

    - Matt
  8. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    my next MT is scheduled sometime in june. but unfortunately no cage matches yet, but thats where i train.
  9. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    I don't train with self defense in mind, I train for the sport. while the ability to defend myself is a nice byproduct its not my goal.

    for resistance training, basically we spar with heavy contact, and try to use "live" methods wherever possible.
  10. Visage

    Visage Banned Banned

    Just stop with the cage, for gods sake!! :bang:

    Being locked in a chickenmesh cage with a huge muscle man may be your idea of high-jinks, but its not for the majority of the rest of us!

    Accept that view points other than your own are valid.
  11. lanista

    lanista New Member

    "and thats what we are talking about here. and if you want to effectively and accurately pressure test your art. then i suggest you get in the cage."

    Putting on baby oil and rollling around the floor in your underpants whilst another semi-nude musleman writhes around on top of you is hardly pressure testing your art.
  12. mididoctors

    mididoctors Valued Member

    I think you have it all just about covered...

    but then really why does one start all this nonense of MA's in the first place.

    I think the sport contact guys have a good take in that if you do not want to risk any of the above sport is all there is...

    light contact is ok as long as you know in your mind its not the real thing or think it translates into full contact just as full contact sparring does not translate into genuine contest match fighting and so on up the chain..

    what ever level you want to take it to i guess...

    what ever tha level is the truth of it's validity does not come from the actual realism of the trainning/contest as much as the realisation in the mind of the practitioner what it is he/she is doing. if you are a light contact points fighter then thats what you are and there is nothing wrong with admitting that

    sport TKD might be pretty lame compared with Thai or whatever but i do not mind as long as those practicing TKD sport style are aware of the boundaries they fight under... this applies all the way to cage fighting of NHB fighting with certain 'rules"..

    people want to know if it is real or not... even incredibly real challenge match training methods or looking for a fight type attitudes are limited by the psychology of such mindsets as is the lack of "seeing' the aftermath of real fighting by people who actually do it. there is always a new way to cheat or trump a fighting style

    the biggest thing i think you can introduce into your training that can prepare you is the idea of the unknown enemy.. even in light semi contact styles... your opponent should be a mystery to you or even worse a mythological monster know only by reputation. you want to experience those emotions.

    MMA or some other full contact contest is probably not a bad thing for everyone to have a shot at at least once against a stranger as that is about as controlled but dangerous as you can go... you do not have to win for such a single experience to be of benefit... you could even tap out or concede prematurely if you realise you are in over your head (or not who knows).

    if you want to take it further or object to the lack of groin shots or whatever devising a method of sparring that allows these targets does not itself guarantee this emotional experience of going in at the deep end.

    objections to full contact contests because they do not allow this or that is not a good argument why you should not experience them as for instance while I agree that the groin being off the menu distorts some technical and tactical aspects of fighting in a ring the experience of being in a fight still holds sway .. rules exist in the mindset irrespective of context

    even NHB fights in public are often regulated by the emotional constraints of the participants... some ring contest is not overly constrained to a degree that invalidates the experience as a fight.

    just one decent standup fight is worth a lot even if you decide not to pursue such a course further down the line... it is character building IMO and MMA or some ring contest strikes me as a good compromise of saftey vs realism

    Last edited: May 18, 2005
  13. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    It'd be easier to accept some of those viewpoints if you new what you were talking about jwhen you post in regards to MMA - but when you post the above how can anyone take that seriously? :confused:

    lol. I think you've been entertaining your fantasies and not watching MMA mate. Freudian slip eh? It helps to post about MMA if you have the faintest idea what it entails. :eek:
  14. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    Errr... see this is a little bit silly so I think Im just going to assume you are taking the mic.
  15. wcrevdonner

    wcrevdonner Valued Member

    A really good post Boris, and I do agree with everything you state there - however, Im slightly confused by the above bit.

    IMHO (and quite inexperienced one as I have never taken part in a challenge match/NHB match yet!), I have seen a 'fighters' mindset after realising a certain amount of contact in your training/fighting experience. I have heard of NHB challenge matches between different stylists, and I don't think you can get more real than that - could you explain what you mean by the limitation of the psychology of this situation?

    Or have I just misunderstood you? :D
  16. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    Ultimately it seems to boil down to this: no one who disagrees with MMA as a realistic form of trainning can provide anything better. Thats about it as far as I can see, if anyone wants to slag of MMA maybe they should post some of ther more realistic trainning they do on a regular basis and then we might taking their resoning more seriously.
  17. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    well there is the dog brothers, but not everyone wants to fight in such a manner because it looks quite painful :D

    I do agree though- as far as sparring goes, mma format is about as close as you will get to real. no it isnt perfect, but its better than only striking or only grappling, or semi contact etc.
  18. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Geez, what happened to the "discuss other methods besides 'the ring'" as discussed in the OP?

    And why is it that a bunch of straight guys are so fascinated by a couple of guys rolling around on the floor while wearing only tight shorts? The commentary, gentlemen, is starting to get a tad bit annoying to this guy, thanks (and I'm gay!). This is the second thread it's infected.

    Finally, slip raises a good one point. If you want to say that you don't think the cage is the be-all-end-all of MA, the JUST SAY IT. Please knock off the not-so-vague homoerotic contents, the people here on this site are more intelligent than to fall for it, while the guys out on t3h str33t will prolly try to knock your teeth in for it. Come up with a better argument guys, just b/c Tekken may have gotten a tad of track doesn't mean nonMMAer need to stoop to the level you have. No wonder they laugh at us, sheesh.
  19. lanista

    lanista New Member

    Hardly a freudian slip, as I dont feel the need to indulge in such shenanigens. I just find the frothing insistance that the only "true test of your art" is to get in a cage and roll around in your underpants annoying
  20. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Then with all due respect, say it without the homo-tones, k? It's not earning us TMA-ers any respect when they talk about competing and we reply with childish insults like "our style is better than rolling around in baby oil while in our underwear".

Share This Page