Perhaps we should define teaching as to impart knowledge or skill to a student. Assisting is helping to fine tune what a student has already been taught by a qualified instructor. Teaching is a skill in itself, almost completely unrelated to knowledge. It requires more learning and experience otherwise the knowledge imparted will harm more than help. I've had this happen to me without any prior training. Believe me, it was a mistake. Fortunately I convinced my instructor to give me a more structured teaching plan. Even though I'd already had 7 years of training, no amount of it prepared me to teach. I really fudged the lesson. Later my instructor asked me to take a coaching course but I had to leave the class.
Having a black belt doesn’t automatically mean you can teach. Not having a black belt doesn’t automatically mean you cannot teach. It’s a simple as that.
Greetings, What you say is all relative. To a white belt or blue belt and 2nd dan may know alot and seem quite good. To a 4th dan or Master he's not in the same leauge. HKD is not TKD a 2nd dan in HKD is 50 times more material than one more practically usless form. I can also tell your a somewhat of a begginer in HKD, because you think five years is a good level of understanding and can assure it's just the tip of the iceberg. It takes at least 10 good years to be a somewhat competant Instr in HKD.
Alright it seems that some people are still not getting the question here. Forget about comparing a 1st dan to a 6th dan or whatever dan. Forget about that. Repeat: forget about comparing a 1st dan to a higher dan. Again the question is if someone is incapable of teaching lower curriculum requirements to a lower belt should that person be denied a black belt? No higher dan in this situation. Forget anything but this situation: What we have is a person in your school just about to become a black belt. For months prior to his Black Belt test you notice that he/she is incapable of teaching lower ranks and the lower ranks seem to never be able to progress when they are being taught or "assisted" by this person. If that person is incapable of teaching a lower belt his techniques, with what a Black Belt represents and what lower belts are expecting of a Black Belt, would you promote him to Black Belt or not?
The question being asked by MaxG is quite common in a lot of schools. Some "soon to be" Black Belts just aren't cut out to be instructors. And we have to asked ourselves, are they cut out to be Black Belts? But I firmly believe that the Master Instructor of the school has a responsibilty to groom all students to be instructors. It my school, I expect my Black Belts to train as hard as I do, and strive to be the best they can be. I also want them to be better than me. And because of my beliefs, I have some of the best Black Belts around. They are dedicated, respectful, and take what they do very seriously. Whether they are 1st Dans or 5th Dans, I know that when I am away and they are left in charge of the school, they are running the school and classes as if it we're their own. They are the type of instructors that I would want teaching a member of my family. My first GM once told a group of new white belts, that we would all be expected to be teachers. Whether we were partnered with another white belt or someone with rank above us. We were expected to teach each other. It was a win/win situation for all of us. It is a tradition that is carried on today in my school.
Ok that's clear! No he should'nt be denied, most people earn a BB for themselves not to teach. He should however be denied any type of Intr. qualification, patch, cert. etc.
Greetings That's riddiculus, no disrespect intended. I wouldn't leave anyone in charge of my classes unless they were a 2nd, 3rd dan and they're techniques and personal conduct were at a truely respectable level. They would also have to be respected by the other students. Any people observing them would be able to see this person is a professional. That's what I'd call qualified. I far as I'm concerned 1st dan is just "out of diapers" in HKD and fininished the basics. I've been around enough to know, I've seen and taught many BB.
You may say that you do not intend any disrespect, but whenever people say that, it's usually what they end up accomplishing. I had posted this a couple of days ago, but apparently you did not see it. I'm sure you have very good students and I agree with most of your views. However, it seems that you always take some type of moral high ground with your reponses. It also seems that you have found the true do (tao) for yourself, but not everyone follows the same path in the martial arts. There is no one true way. All of this stuff about what a 4th dan knows as opposed to a 1st are moot points because of what I said above. This whole idea of rank has gotten out of hand. Every martial artist is unique, you can not lump them all into convient little holes saying that this is what a 1st, 2nd, x dan is. The way you run your school sounds fine for you, but because of other peoples beliefs and circumstances they run it a different way. Who's better? Who cares, just train hard and enjoy it.
This is a good thread! Ooooh... what a tough case. I'm betting I'll catch some flak for my reply but that's what makes discussion fun (as long as it's respectful) In the above situation, my vote to the board would be "Do not promote to 1st dan. Re-evaluate in 6 months". A student who cannot express and assist junior students in class has not properly digested the material and concepts they have been studying. I don't expect them to run a class but to offer help on a technique that they learned as, say, a green belt, should be within their realm of ability. If a student has "mastered" the technqiue and accompanying concepts, they should be able to help others do the same. In our school (note that schools, and especially between styles vary greatly) we have an expectation of our black belts being capable of limited instruction and supervision and we assure that they can do so. If you can't, you don't get promoted. There is nothing wrong with staying at 1st geup and learning the system purely for yourself... 1st dan and above add the responsibility of promoting the art and assisting with the teaching/learning of it in our school.
You'll get no flak for this reply from me, Thomas. Some of us have been saying this for 3 pages now! :bang: Then again, MA is all about repetition!
I dont do HKD, but this topic seems to have spread beyong that specific style, despite being posted here. One things i'm intrested in is the things you learn in the dan levels, apart from forms. My view in general is the dan levels is about simply becoming better at what you already know, and you dont need extra belts to get better. Say a 2nd Dan stopped grading but continued to train for decades, would he be in the same league as higher ranking practitioners? And more importantly, would you let him teach at your school? Personally i would want to expand my fighting ability to other ranges rather that simply keep getting belts.
Greetings HKD is different than TKD, A HKD 2nd dan has around 150-200 new techniques to learn as well as getting better at the older stuff. TKD is one form and get better at old stuff big difference. If someone stopped grading and never learned the new material he should be very good up to where he stopped, however he'd know nothing of the higher dan material.
Greetings, Josh some of what you say can be true and there's always exceptions, you also are getting offended over a friendly discussion. I didn't disrespect anyone just disagreed so chill. In general however my expirience is alot more than yours, I've seen alot more than you after 26 yrs in HKD and I have a pretty respectable back ground most people would agree. What I say comes from my expirience and years of learning, the older expirienced guys know what I mean, the younger lower ranks haven't gotten there yet and can't speak from the same time and expirience in MA. It's not a moral high ground it's called paying my dues and being there done that!
Greetings Thomas I agree with you in a sense, a student must have a good level of understanding to pass a BB exam. But that level is for himself not to teach. He may assist under supervision as you said, but that's assisting not really teaching. It's more like a carpenters apprentise he mainly carries tools, fetches, watches, does some real simple tasks, but the aprentise can't build a building as the master can. That's why I feel most 1st & 2nd dans are still apprentises not to be relyed on to build a house yet that will hold up. Of course that's comming from my expirience.
Origionally posted by American HKD American HKD you seem to be very insecure and I feel sorry for your students. You say you've been around awhile, well so have I. But you have every right to run your school and instruct your students anyway you see fit. I too have a right to run my school the way I feel it needs to be run, even if it includes allowing 1st Dans the opportunity to be in charge of running classes whether I'm present or not. It doesn't matter if the person is a 2nd, 3rd, or the GM himself, as long as a Black Belt has the respect of his fellow students, and the ability to teach what he has learned is all that is really important. You say you have trained with GM Ji, but apparently you haven't learned anything. In his absense while he ran the CA school, 1st dans were called upon to run the school on several occasions. Why? (1) he had faith in our abilities (2) he trusted us,(3) we had the respect of the lower belt ranks. So come on Stuart, get off your high horse and quit refering to 1st Dans as being "just out of diapers". It's unprofessional attitudes like yours that give all instrcutors a bad name. I've read your previous post and find them very amusing to say the least. You seem to have all the answers. Opps, got to go. It's time for a diaper change!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unless you see or experience the quality of any particular 1st Dan you're only guessing at the quality of their techniques. Some schools 1st dan's are equal to 2nd and 3rd dans of other schools. This is true in every association and federation. Not all 1st dans under Sin Moo Hapkido are equal to all the others. As Jointlock says "Every martial artist is unique, you can not lump them all into convient little holes saying that this is what a 1st, 2nd, x dan is." Techniques and personal conduct at a respectable level aren't exclusive to 2nd dan and above. I am also respected by my fellow students and imho (and my instructors) am quite qualified to teach. But your Black Belts are probably a lot different than others especially with the mentality that you keep insinuating that they know nothing. If you have 2 instructors to compare one with the mentality that a Black Belt should be able to handle teaching a class by him/herself and another who thinks that by Black Belt you really don't know anything... Which do you think, just by their trains of thought, has been "grooming" their particular students better for the last 4 years? "No disrespect intended" but I know which instructor I'd choose to train with...
The more the merrier. Bring your fellow stuidents of your particular syle along and have them give their opinion as well. I posted here because I train predominantly in Hapkido. I would like other stylists opinions as well but I didn't want to be a post monger and post the same topic in the other style forums. Doing that might even be against MAP rules.
Greetings Unfortunatly Masterbob, Max, and Joint are all taking me way out of context and putting a nice twist on my fairly simple concepts. The also can't help name calling and other personal derogatory comments etc. I think they should stop if they can control themselves? 1. A 1st DAN NEED NOT KNOW HOW TO TEACH TO PASS THE EXAM. 2. A 2nd to 3rd dan SHOULD BE ABLE TO ACT AS AN ASSISTANT INSTR., BUT STILL NEED NOT BE GREAT AT IT. NOR SHOULD IT PREVENT HIS DAN GRADE. 3. A 4TH IN MOST KOREAN ARTS IS SUPPOSED TO BE AT INSTR LEVEL AND SHOULD KNOW HOW TO TEACH AND RECEIVE AN INSTR. CERTIFICATE AND INSTR TRAINING BY THEN. 4. IN MY BOOK A 1ST DAN HKD IS NOT AN INSTR. A 2ND AND 3RD ARE ASSISTANTS (APPRENTISES) AND A 4TH IS A FULL INSTR. OR SHOULD BE BY THEN. 5th IS A MASTER. CHART OF UNDERSTANDING THE CONCEPTS 3-5 Yrs 1st dan (just finished basis not a teacher PERIOD!) 2-3 yrs 2nd dan (good understanding up to 1st dan) Fair understanding of 2nd dan. Could teach basics! 2-4 yrs 3rd dan (good understanding of 1,2 dan) Fair understanding of 3rd Could teach 1 & 2nd dans I hope! 2-4 yrs 4th dan (good knowledge of 1,2,3 dans) Could teach most! 2-5 yrs 5th dan (good understanding of 1,2,3,4, etc) Could teach everything! No way in this world is a 1st dan a teacher in the true sense of the word, as I said before he's just out of diapers. You guys just all want to fool yourselves that's ok with me. I personally don't care how many of you are 1st dan teachers that's your business but your not on a profesional level after 3-5 yrs training. Sorry folks but in 99% of the cases it just doesn't work that way, unless your in La La Land smoking some strong weed.
And you've seen 99% of all instructors when? No one is misquoting you. You yourself have said: 1st Dans are barely out of diapers. 1st Dans cannot make good instructors. And my personal fave, "That's ridiculous, no disrespect intended". So, we've warped and twisted your words where? All we've done is quote you. I'm glad you have your own system of doing things, but sadly, it appears many of us do not share your thoughts. I've had 1st Degree instructors who were great, and 5th Dan instructors who sucked. It's all about the quality of the student, and with the way you talk down to people, it's no wonder your 1st Dans are still in diapers! Oh, and for the record, to go from black sash 1 to black sash 2 in my system, you don't just learn a form. We learn techniques, philosophy, weapons, applications of the weapons, and, if you're going to be an instructor, a special instructor's class. Just so you don't think my CMa is all about "forms".
Greetings Stop turning this into a personal attacks, I never did that regardless of what you may think my comments are in generalized statements. It seems when some of you can't handle a different opinion, you can only respond by personal attactks. It's ashame! MY chart is a General Guide. I also said ealier there's alway exceptions to the rules so I does'nt matter if I seen everyone, I've surely seen more HKD students than you have in fact! Next if you're not a HKD instr., I don't think you have any valid opinion on what level any HKD students should or shouldn't be.
