Requirement for Blackbelt = Teaching Ability?

Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by MaxG, Sep 8, 2005.

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Should teaching capability be necessary for Black Belt?

  1. Yes

    23 vote(s)
    41.1%
  2. No

    33 vote(s)
    58.9%
  1. MaxG

    MaxG Valued Member

    Just curious how many people think that teaching should be one of the requirements to become a black belt. And I mean as a strict requirement meaning that you need to be able to teach effectively or else you won't be getting a black belt. Period.
     
  2. cavallin

    cavallin kickin' kitten

    i think thats a bad idea, because not everyone is suited to teaching. it's not fair if you're a rubbish teacher, bad teacher's are bad because they cant make people understand them, they arent patient, they dont encourage etc...
    which has nothing to do with MA. and how would you measure how good at teaching someone is? get some white belt up? what if each student they are teaching have different abilities? cos they cant keep teaching the same student obviously.
    my thoughts.
     
  3. clemsontkd

    clemsontkd New Member

    I also think that could turn people away from the MA. By the time someone goes for their black belt they probably have worked with younger people in their club anyway, so i think that they have adequately covered working with other people and trying to teach.
     
  4. Leo_E_49

    Leo_E_49 Valued Member

    I agree, you can be excellent at MA but horrible at teaching and still deserve a black belt. Conversely, there are some people who are great teachers before they've earned their BB.
     
  5. Jointlock

    Jointlock Valued Member

    I voted no, but I wanted to vote yes. If you would have had a larger scale I would have voted somewhere in the middle. I think that a student should be exposed to teaching and give it a go a couple times.

    In my experience much can be learned from teaching. In order to teach you must know the material, be able to perform it, and be able to explain it. Believe it or not, explaining is often the most difficult part. I have learned much from teaching and I think that my techniques and understanding of the art have jumped miles ahead.
     
  6. cavallin

    cavallin kickin' kitten

    i agree, but a better version would be: say 20 hours teaching service a year a requirement or something? but you shouldnt be tested on it
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Tough topic (but a good one)

    I believe that senior students (pre-black belt) need to learn how to assist in warmups, assist in teaching, and get practice doing it. Here are my reasons:
    (1) Seeing or doing something is good. But, teaching something is the most effective way for retention/comprehension/advanced application of the material. You learn more about the art by teaching it.

    (2) Senior belts and black belts are looked up and students seek their assistance and emulate them as role models. Any black belt (or senior color belt) then needs to have the skills and practice to be able to assist their juniors. Also, by training color belts and black belts to be able to teach, it allows you to break up classes into more manageble numbers, ensuring a better student:instructor ratio.

    (3) The "internship" that students serve learning how to instruct helps them gain a better understanding of the art and provides a deeper level of training beyond "just the techniques". It also helps everyone get to know, accept, and understand each other a lot more... creating a better environment for learning.


    Now, as requirements go, we do have a strict requirement for testing for black belt: the student must be able to conduct warmups and assist in supervising, teaching, and reviewing material below their rank. They must demonstrate their abilities over a period of about 6 months or longer before we will consider testing for 1st dan. Why?

    Watching a student teach and work with people of various ages and abilities is a good way of assessing their patience, understanding, adaptations, people skills, creativity, work ethic, and so on. If a red belt can't teach white belts their basic form without snapping and yelling and getting frustrated... they won't get a black belt from us.

    So, all students learn the basics of supervision and instruction from us and continue doing so through the black belt ranks. However, we do separate out people who want to be instructors and offer more training and responsibility. All of our instructor posiitions are appointed... based on skills and desire, not rank. So, you don't need to become an instructor with us but you do need to learn the basics.
     
  8. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    I vote no. Why? A black belt means you are ready to start learning. It means you have (or should have) a good solid grounding in the basics, but it by no means you are ready or prepared to be a teacher. I agree with Thomas in part, you should be able assist (or even start) the warmups and run thru the basic forms. But, teaching should be done by the teacher.
     
  9. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    ^^^^^^^What he said.

    I think it's important for students to have some ability to be able to communicate ideas and concepts to the newer students. As Thomas pointed out these students, the senior ones, are the role models. These are the ones the instructors call upon in a pinch to help out. While they may not want to be instructors, they should at least be able to lead a basic warm up, as well as be able to explain the concepts the lower belts are working on.

    What I agree with the most is what I quoted above. Obviously if a student who hits black belt wants to instruct, they will need to be participate in a different traiing program than those who don't. And there is nothing wrong with that. But I certainly do not object to students being asked to assist "x" number of classes, because their ability to comunicate the information they have gathered is an excellent gague of how well they themselves understand it!

    So I'd end up voting "yes and no"... "yes", they should have some experience teaching, but "no" they shouldn't have to be an offical instructor to receive a black belt.

    (As an aside, I am fairly certain my GM has set up a specific program for instructors, and another for those who want to open their own schools...)
     
  10. Jointlock

    Jointlock Valued Member

    I agree that someone that just received there blackbelt should not be left on his/her own to teach. I think the teaching that they do, should be supervised and critiqued by the instructor. Something like this happened at my first school, I came home from the Marines and my first instructor asked if I could teach occasionally. All of the sudden I was teaching every class and I didn't see the instructor for several months at a time. I remember wishing that he would have been there to see me teach and critique me. I have also heard stories of masters that get a couple blackbelts under them then they stop teaching and have their blackbelts run all of their classes without paying them while the Master sits in the office.

    However, I still stand by you can't truly learn the art until you try to teach it. Teaching = learning. Everytime I work with someone new it is like I am starting all over again at white belt, because I experience the student learning.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2005
  11. nj_howard

    nj_howard Valued Member

    Excellent point imo. First dan rank to me means exactly this. Nothing more than that you have achieved basic proficiency in the techniques and philosophy (if applicable) of your chosen art.

    A bit off topic I know, but the outlandish things many people unfamiliar with MA think black belts are capable of continue to amaze me. :confused:
     
  12. JimH

    JimH Valued Member

    I do not feel that teaching SHOULD be a requirement for Black Belt as there are many who can do techniques but do not know how to articulate and fully explain that technique.

    Take Joe Lewis for example,he was a Great Fighter a Great Balck Belt ,but he has said that it took him many years to be able to instruct people because he was Great at copying/modeling others and it came easy for him to learn,but not so easy to explain.(should he have not been a black Belt?)

    Even though a student does not actually get up and teach a class,as the student grows in their colored belts they should be able to give feed back and basic correction to juniors they work with,this enables them to gain a confidence in their ability to explain and it also helps them understand the technique better themselves.

    If a student showed an interest in opening their own school as they approach Black Belt then they could take over some of the instruction ,under supervision ,and be allowed to grow into the role.

    Again, we should listen to the students and not create obstacles for some with no interest,but we should encourage those who want to be a leader.
    (True leadership comes from within with desire and experience,it is not forced)
     
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    I think the idea of "opening a school" adds a different element. Our school usually promotes a person to 1st dan in about 3-5 years and they earn that dan by developing good technqiue and the basics of instructing. However I think 1st dan (in our system) is way too early to consider opening a school and being the head instructor on a daily basis (in general).

    As a student, I would like to see someone with at least 10 years of martial arts experience and at least2 or 3 years of instruction (fulltime) under their belt before they open a school. In our school, that would be a 3rd or 4th dan most likely. (Note: the numbers are just a general idea)

    I do look at 1st dan as other have: as a person who has absorbed and generally mastered the basics. From 1st to 5th dan (or so) the process shifts from learning lots of techniques to learning how to apply, integrate, and adapt those techniques. Spending time teaching them is a good way to do that. People who want to become instructors and possibkly open a school need more training specifically in teaching, curriculum and evaluation, and the business side...
     
  14. zac_duncan

    zac_duncan New Member

    I think Jim just nailed it. You should be able to not just perform but also explain the hows and whys of the techniques.


    An off-topic note, this weekend I test for my 2nd dan. I haven't been nervous in some time but I'm starting to get jittery now.
     
  15. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    A lot of people know my opinions on teaching....I don't think it should ever be a requirement. We have students in my school that can barely speak, let alone teach effectively. However some of them are excellent MAtists and shouldn't be denied a BB because of a speech impediment.
     
  16. TheGnome

    TheGnome New Member

    Why couldn't a person with a severe speech impediment teach? It might require some, or maybe major adaptations, but anyone can teach you something that they have good knowledge in.

    As for the teaching requirement I think it depends on what you feel a Black Belt represents. The original Belt Rankings in Kanos' system did mean that you had an understanding of the basics and nothing about teaching. However all concepts evolve, and if in your art or school the BB's are expected to be able to teach, then that should be up to the people of that art/school.
     
  17. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    If that was in response to me, I'm simply pointing out that my GM takes instruction and running a school so seriously you have to particiapte in a special course to be allowed to open a school and put the Bai Kai name on it!

    I agreed with the rest of what you said this time, lol.
     
  18. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    It wasn't as much a response as something that came to mind while reading your post. I guess it was an indirect reponse. :)

    However I think the GM running a special course to train school owners and give them a good grounding in running the school is a great way to ensure that the name (Bai Kai) doesn't get watered down or mis-applied. I think it's a very good idea. I re-read the first post of yours and think it sounds really good.
     
  19. American HKD

    American HKD New Member

    Greetings

    Getting a BB has nothing at all to do with teaching ability.

    No one should mix apple and oranges. Earning a BB mean you know the material for yourself.

    Just because you graduated High School does'nt make you a teacher.

    Teaching and passing on the system, being able to bring someone else to a BB level requires more skills than being able to throw a kick or do a joint lock.

    Moreover most BB aren't that good in fact most don't get really good until 2nd or 3rd and that still doesn't make you a good teacher.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2005
  20. Jointlock

    Jointlock Valued Member

    Very good point. Obviously people have different ideas of the way things should be.
     

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