I sat in on a taekwondo class and the teacher is 70 years old. He wants 80$ a month plus 40$ for the "suit". He has an emense amount of experience (judging by all the awards and pictures on the walls). However, I'm not sure about this school, it is really small he has only 7-15 students and you only meet 3 times a week for an hour each time. Is this how most schools run? Would you please give me examples of how your school works, costs, sessions, the instructor? Thanks for any help, Karter
That works out roughly $7 a lesson. I pay $8 a lesson for formal instruction. *shrugs*, seems Ok. I train 2x a week formally, with the possibility of training 4x a week if I want to make an hour drive another 2x a week. Doors open at 5:30, start at 6am - we're responsible for warming up and stretching ourselves during that period from when the doors open and class starts. We do technique work for half an hour, then sparring for half an hour. I'd personally be very wary of joining a TKD dojo.
We went over this before... I live in North America, In the United States, In California, In the southern reigion, in the 909 area code... thanks, Karter (from USA/california/909)
Reasonable Cost? Just because someone has pictures and awards plastered all over the walls does not mean that they are expert!! or experienced, or anything else. Do you judge a book by it's cover? Small class sizes are good for a more one to one teaching environment but they do lack the overall feel of doing certain things with groups. You do not say if the group is made up of children and adults or split. One instructor to 8 - 10 students is a good ratio any higher and you lose out as well as any lower. Cost, well thats an individual thing as only you can make that judgement. For the UK, there are many ways of paying from monthly, yearly etc. I can only tell you how I do it and certain other groups will pay, but most are near the same. Pay as you train with a one off payment for your licence, which should include your insurance. For myself I will ask for a fee for your licence (includes your insurance) of £30 sterling, with a training fee of £3 sterling for two hours adult and £2.50 sterling for 1 and a half hours per child. You also have OAP, Disabled, family and low wage & student rates. Thats training 3 times per week, every week except the Christmas holidays. Most clubs will over-see their costs and meet them so that the student(s) get a good and fair deal. like most clubs in the UK, which are run as charities and this means they are not allowed to make a profit, thus any money that is made goes back into the club. Osu. Paul Paterson.
So you think that paying for your licence, your training per night, your gi and belt, your juice and hi-energy bar is not worth paying for? Most people with some kind of sense will find such cost very reasonable. Those who run clubs will find the costs are more costly but still within their constitutional funds, remember this is not a business where your out to make the most money. If that is your case then please change your priorities. Osu. Paul Paterson.
firstly, why should we have to have a licence? Contrary to popular belief, it is not a legal requirement. Your gi, your juice and whatever are your responsibility. The instructors obviously do have a right to demand some kind of fee for their services. Actually, I find the fees I've been charged pretty reasonable.
Karter the price of the suit sounds reasonable. The cost of the instruction is down to whether you believe it is worth it, have you visited any other clubs? My instructor charges £2 a WEEK!!! He is a school caretaker and gets the hall for free so we all benefit money wise. However if we had to pay £10 a lesson I would still train with him (although I would be extremely poor). You see; I believe that what he teaches would warrant the cost. Infact if you take into account my week lessons a cost breakdown would be: £12 for babysitter, £5 for petrol 50p for lesson. He will also open up the hall for me at any time it is free and let me train for nothing. He might also join in with me if he's not busy.
No licence, no insurance. For some reason, I never got asked... (I got into training in a roundabout way through a youthclub, so it was taken as read)
Hell yes, a well designed cover is always a good indicator of the quality of the book. If the cover appeals to you, then its generally a safe bet that the book will as well. A badly designed cover usually indicates a trashy, mass-produced book, not always, but usually. Of course, it all depends on what appeals to you. Start praying that you don't get injured, or more importantly injure someone. If they decided to sue you then you would most likely lose all of your property, depending on the injury you may also be forced to pay support or treatment for them. That's why you need insurance. As an instructor I'm insured for up to two million if I injure someone other than through negligence. And in England that'll cover most things, but without insurance you are liable for all of that yourself. Well, I'd be wary of a TKD dojo because TKD is a korean art, and dojo is a Japanese term. I'd much prefer a TKD dojang to be honest.
"No licence, no insurance... " Very dangerous and foolish, do you drive a car by chance Knight_errant? Osu. Paul Paterson.
Doesn't sound too high I'm in the US, in rural upstate NY where the cost of living is fairly low compared to other areas. The rate for traing at the local TKD school ranges from about $50-60. You can get two lessons plus a uniform for $20. The price you are quoting seems to be pretty good. See if you can go in for a demo lesson or two and see how the instructor is. Also, ask about other costs... when would you be expected to have pads... how much are testing fees? If the instructor is really good and you think he'd be ideal to train with, I'd pay almost anything. If he is pretty generic, look around for a better deal. I do recommend going for a trial lesson before comitting to fees and uniforms (and special equipment like pads!). Again the instructor is more important to consider than the style... (Don't listen to people who bash styles... there may be a bad instructor here and there but there is no bad style... )
Sounds like a money making scam to me This is the problem with some schools they can flease you for the training - then you are looking at the cost for grading (which I hear is mega high in TKD) I charge nothing to teach as I teach friends and referals. I used to charge £3 a 2 hour lesson and that was cos I had hall hire - no membership and grades were free. I am not in an affiliation so dont have to pay all this amount and the insurance I have I would pay for weather I charge or not. I don't like the level of cash people take as I feel from my experience the TKD schools I went to were not worth £3 per month let along £30 that they wanted. (Still I hear there are good schools out there). I have to say it does seem an expensive art expecially when taking Dan grade exams. No cheap and dirty stuff only for me. - I would say dump em mate! SONSHU
Some schools are expensive Some schools are expensive, especially the ones that are out to make a profit. However, a local school does need money to survive. If you teach on your own and have a place and system like Sonshu does... nice... it's easy on the students' wallets. In a case like the school where I train, my master has a full time job in construction but loves teaching martial arts. He likes to have lots of classes so he can cover lots of different levels and topics. The problem is that he needs a place to train (as well as insurance). He isn't going to pay the bills out of his pocket. Keep in mind that money is also needed to improve your dojang... padded tiles/mats are expensive. Those heavy bags/paddles/targets cost a lot. Rent, utilities and insurance drive the price up as well. The istructor should be reimbursed for time, gasoline and costs (that in my mind is just good manners). Currently as we are at a University (club) and most of this stuff is covered, the club charges $25 for a semester (covers his time/gas and paperwork costs). Hopefully by August we'll set up a new place where we can set up our equipment permanantly and set up a schedule of our own choosing. Speaking of paperwork costs... if you are affiliated with a federation, your master pays charter fees, which can be pretty high. In return for the fees, you get many benefits: 1. Rank certification beyond just your school (e.g. if you are dan ranked with the Kukkiwon, you hold that rank nearly everywhere in the world)... 2. A curriculum which is fairly the same across all affiliated schools (which is nice if you travel or move and get into another charter member's school). 3. And, if you travel, you can train at any member school for no additional fee (as long as you hold membership)... I like this benefit as I travel sometimes. 4. Access to charter sponsored tournaments and seminars at reduced prices (or free)... 5. Fees usually include your belts, certificates, patches, etc. 6. A guarantee (in a way) that the ranks given by this organization are roughly equal across all member schools. When you vists another member school, your rank will be honored and you should be on a roughly even level with holders of similar rank. This is a way to prevent instructors from not teaching you what the federation deems important (curriculum). It is sort of bad that we have to pay a lot of money for training but the reality is that the money is needed to keep a school going. If you have an unaffiliated master, the downside is that sometimes s/he doesn't have access to improving his/her abilities through the seminars held through the federation aimed at improving instructors. Also, the instructor may not have access to as much tapes/books/senior instructors that an affiliated master would. It is nice when you find a master that balances the cost of running a business with an acceptable level of payment for the students. Is TKD certification through Kukkiwon expensive? Yes and it shouldn't be. Kukkiwon charges several hundred US$ per black belt certification it issues(price goes up by dan grade). The test is done by the local board and the paperwork submitted to South Korea. This is a problem with having one group responsible for the rank certificates... the advantage is having rank acknowledged worldwide and access to all of the WTF facilities/promotions/etc, especially when you travel, go to seminars, or move. It should be noted that this policy is a bureacratic one and does not reflect on the quality of the style of martial art... just on its fee scales. Before you commit to a school, if rank is something you are aiming for, make sure to ask about testing fees. There are alternative means for ranking and certification, but ensure that you check them out thoroughly as well.
How big is your class on avarage? I know most of the TKD class's I have been to are 20-40 strong and these numbers are very good and create a varierty of people to kick about with. However it does seem to me to be one charge after another with TKD and this is somthing that has really put me off it. I was told to pay £40 a month irrespective of how often I trained - there was only 2 classes a week!!!!and then there was, membership, insurance, equipment, seminars, gradings, suits, this put me off as it was a joke and the guy seemed happy to say this is a good price! The trouble is money is by no means a sign of quality. I would advise just shop around and you can get a free lesson with most schools, use it until you find one that has the right feel to it. Dont feel pressured to sign after the first lesson as its a big commitment and poor schools/instructors are the cause for declining numbers in what we all do!!!!!!!! I always ask myself as I cross train in other styles and am doing my first grading in a local school this weekend. Am I getting my moneys worth? At the end of the day you earn it so spend it wisely. This school could be great - just make sure the decision is your alone and that you are happy. SONSHU
Re: How big is your class on avarage? I agree completely... and some schools are worth more than I am paying (have paid)! I hate the little add-on costs game... and in some schools they really add up. In fact, my master recently split from his original affiliation because as the grandmaster (very close) is retiring and passing everything down to his grandson (money/business oriented), we've been seeing much less support at a higher cost. We've recently joined the Independent Taekwondo Association, which how GM Pelligrini (founder of ICHF Hapkido) wants to deal with avoiding such high costs for member schools. The ITA will offer rank certification in WTF or ITF style of Taekwondo (as well as Hapkido and other styles) at a very low cost. If you want Kukkiwon (or other) certification, it is available at a very low cost (about half of what the previous school wanted). I am not sure how it'll work out, but it seems good. Oh, to answer the question about class size... at the University we are in a small multipurpose room and usually have from 15-25 students for each class. We are hoping to expand the size when my master opens up a new school (rented space)... for now it's mainly students of this University. Many of the townspeople travel farther to other schools in the same system.
