ok here is a pointless post for you to ponder 2 students begin training one an external martial art the other an internal one it doesnt matter which (if i said names things would go down hill very fast) for the first five years the external one has the advantage for the second five years they are matched evenly and for the next 50 years the internal student triumphs . five years isnt really a lot of time so lets say everyday for five years agree ? disagree ? or is this just pointless.
pointless, stupid, and a gross generalization. i'd put my money on the externalist until the internalist stabs him in the back when they get too old to go at it.
Sounds like Internal Martial art propaganda Just cause an instructor says something, doesn't mean it's true.
I'm an exception to the Rule and that is "Yeah I believe that because I am training under you. Great Grand Master Spiritual leader Sifu Sensei"
It is also worth noting that many "external" styles contain elements of internal MA after reaching a certain level. So as I train in both, that must mean I can beat you all. :woo: MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Bob, excellent question. I have done both Shaolin & Karate ( External ) and Internal. In addition to the longer use-by-date, IMA does not require and stretching or warmups. Consider the situation in a street attack. A TKD practioner will have to say to his attacker, "excuse me could you please wait 10-15 mins for me to stetch and warm up before you attack me so I can defend myself without me hurting myself more than you can hurt me ? I agree, IMA takes longer thanh EMA to be battle ready, but good things dont come easy. Most of my IMA teachers have done EMAs first and recognise it's many disadvantages. Dont get me wrong, EMAs are very effective, but only under the ideal conditions such as , being young, big, have big muscles and pain tolerance . None of these factors are needed in IMA. IMA masters are fighting fit into their 70's. EMA uses own energy, IMAs borrow opponents energy. IMA is more efficient. Many EMA people start complaining of joints problems, arthiritis, muscle tremor, if they dont stop practicising EMA by 40. Wing Chun is the only exception, thought strictly a Shaolin art ( EMA) , it is very Internal in nature. Yip Man was still kick ass at 70 until he fell to cancer
Hi soggycat, I'm curious abt your questions and pls helps me to clarify my doubts.. IMA does not require and stretching or warmups.>> R u sure? IMAs borrow opponents energy.>> How to borrow energy? IMA is more efficient.>> Y more efficient?? Wing Chun is the only exception, thought strictly a Shaolin art ( EMA) , it is very Internal in nature.>> How it is very internal??
Thanks for the questions. Two examples of BORROW ENERGY. 1. Say an attacker is punching at my face with his right hand. If I turn in such a way ie. anticlockwise , that follows the punch, using my left hand to guide the punch at wrist level, and when I'm rotated to nearly 90 degrees ie perpendicular to him, I swing my right hand into his throat. So I have borrowed his energy by actually helping him to go in the forward direction, whilst I avoid his punch. Basically he has walked into my right hand which is striking his throat 2. Say he attacks me with a left hook aimed at my lower right side. I sweep my right hand down and actually pull his attacking left hand towards me. In a way he is pushing me, so I borrow his strength/ energy and rotate my body clockwise, which now causes my left hand to approach his body which I can use to strike his face . Basically whenever he strikes at me, I rotate in such a way I latch onto his movement, use it to help me move in the SAME DIRECTION and counterattack on the other side. Very Yin Yang eh ? That's borrowing his energy. There are many such other examples especially in Tai Chi and Bagua, less in Hsing Yi, yes even Wing Chun uses this Borrowing concept, that's why it's more internal than the other Shaolin arts. IMA does not require warm ups or stretches. Yes I am very very sure, but I can see why you may not agree due to what you have experienced. Ive been to several IMA schools. They all teach TaiChi, Bagua and Hsing Yi. Some require warm up and stretches. Some say it not necessary. A few actually prohibit it. It toook me a while to realise the reason for the differences. The ones doing Wushu form of Bagua and TaiChi placed a lot of emphasis on WarmUps and stretching. But the schools that emphasise practical fighting ability dont care much for warmups and stretches. I dont know if you are aware of this but Wushu was set up by the Communist Govt in China in 1950s. It is Martial Arts combined with dance and gymnastics. It emphasises form, elegance over fighting ability. Wushu is Martial Arts without the lethal sting. Wushu people may mention Meditation in passing, but is not core part of their training. Then theres the other category of IMA. Some IMA teachers teach Bagua and HsingI in a very hard /external way…a bit of a contradiction. These will want you to do warm ups and stretches. Theres a Little talk of Meditation but not emphasised. The third way which is the way closest to the original teachings goes like this. No Warm Ups No Stretches. All movements are done slowly, softly and relaxed with muscles Emphasis is on accuracy , not beauty and elegance. Massive emphasis on Quiet Mediation ( all forms) to develop Chi. These people rely on Chi for Power , not big musles. The technical definition of high efficiency is Maximum Output with Minimum Input. IMA is more efficient because it uses the “ Let 4 ounzes move 1000 pounds” principle. The defender borrows energy from the attacker while minimises using his own The defender re-directs a punch, whereas EMA hard blocks it. IMA movements are designed for minimum energy expenditure for maximum effect….in accordance with Taoist principle of Wu Wei found in the Tao Te Ching . It talks of Non Struggle, avoid non spontaneous actions/ movements.. Serious IMA people must read Tao Te Ching and understand its applications in Martial Arts. Lao Tzu who wrote it ,was a Martial Artist. May I ask what kind of MA background you have ? So I can fine tune what I say. Wing Chun, at least under the teacher I studied , does not have stretches and warmups. Im aware many schools will do the opposite. But since my teacher learnt directly from the modern day Founder , Yap Man, I believe Im getting the undiluted , unadulterated, unmodified teaching. Wing Chun ,strictly speaking is an EMA because of its Shaolin origin. But its principles and movements are closest to IMA because it Borrows energy, re-directs punches instead of hard blocking as in most other Shaolin or Karate / TKD etc styles. My IMA teacher has a theory. If you follow the story of Nun Ng Mui and how she fled the Southern Shaolin temple because of persecution form the Manchu Emperor, she hid in a temple in a region where TaiChi and Bagua was practised. It is possible that she learnt and incorporated IMA principles into the Wing Chun she already knew. Much like Ueshiba Moreheii, who first developed Aikido from Jujitsu in 1920’s, but learnt some Bagua from a Master when he was posted to Northern China / Mongolia as a soldier. Upon returning to Japan, he softned and internalised Aikido in to anIMA> Not surprise Aikido is the only Japanese IMA and the only MA that talks a lot about Ki ( Chi , Qi) Hope this helps.
Hi soggycat, Thank u for e prompt reply, I find your explanation v interesting but I'm confused by some of the replys... "Use it to help me move in the SAME DIRECTION and counterattack on the other side. Very Yin Yang eh ?" >> V Yin Yang huh... How?? "Yes even Wing Chun uses this Borrowing concept, that's why it's more internal than the other Shaolin arts." >> Borrowing concept = internal... huh?? "Theres a Little talk of Meditation but not emphasised." >> How do u do your meditation?? "All movements are done slowly, softly and relaxed with muscles Emphasis is on accuracy ,">> Wat r e accuracy?? "Massive emphasis on Quiet Mediation ( all forms) to develop Chi." >> R u sure?? "These people rely on Chi for Power , not big musles." >> Who r these people?? "Lao Tzu who wrote it ,was a Martial Artist." >> R u sure?? "May I ask what kind of MA background you have ?" >> CMC Tai Ji...
