Quality control in the Bujinkan

If someone ask me on learning a Traditional Martial Art, I will direct them to a club who in my opinion will suite their needs. If someone asks me to teach them how to survive in such environments, I will still offer a list of clubs that may suit them but also show what we offer.

 

I don't often agree with Garth, but I can see where he's coming from Steve.

To the general public, reading this..... What might their impression be of what is taught? And 'the guys a 5 th Dan too!'

 

That might be an advertisement blanket to promote vids across a wider audience. I could have put other words in as a sand bag technique. But as most other stuff on YouTube used the same words as a filter, again it's not miss leading. You have the right as an intelligent person wether to dismiss or accept what is shown. ( And to be truthful I have more praise from Bujinkan members miffed at the grades being thrown out, and thanks for showing actual techniques based in real time)
If a video was shown of a Bujinkan member being decimated by a Muay Thai figher how would that be filtered with catch words.

I have to agree with Reality Please, that Garth has been on the end of a lot of abuse, but as is stated were in the web page or on Youtube is are we lying to Joe Public.
Do you really think a piece of paper is going to stop someone from attacking you?
If you want to learn a TMA then we/I am not the person, if you wish to join a MA workshop in which we explore different Arts via the people who in the class are from different MA and learn the strengths and weaknesses of each Art and pysical attributes then maybe.
Out on the street a Self-Defence Cerficate that Garth may sell or a Black-Belt in any style means nothing.. and that is the most important lesson of all.
Wether you are a shodan or a Godan you still can be done in by an untrained individual and that is one lesson I'll teach for free.

 

If its got £500 and a picture of the queen? Maybe! Lol

 

Over 27 years of experience in the arts....

 

The Bujinkan and Genbukan are completely different martial arts that share a same relative.

It all depends on what people's goals are:

I know people who have traditional rankings in related arts and they quite deserve them. I certainly don't deserve them. However, they are optimizing for what they want, and me for what I want. They're not all that interested in my goals and I'm not so interested in theirs, which is totally fine. It'd be a pretty boring place if everyone wanted the same thing. I'm getting what I want, and they what they want.

The Bujinkan allows people with many different goals to pursue them along side each other, and the great thing is that what I do doesn't effect them and vice versa. A possible annoyance is when people conflate these things, but that feeling passes rather quickly with some training. I usually leave happy that I'm successfully pursuing my goals and they often lead feeling the same about theirs. Sounds perfect.

I suppose this might be a problem for people who would like to rely on outside validation of their particular chosen goal if that's not the dominantly, publicly, understood basis of a particular certification. However, I'd like to suggest that martial arts are a pretty bad route to take if someone's looking for external documented validation. Seriously, the public at large pretty much think it's what they take their grade-school kids to for some after-school babysitting.

 

So...

How does this....

Equal that?

 

As far as I understand, the SFR in Genbukan is identical to SFR in the Bujinkan. However, Tanemura soke cannot grant Menkyo Kaiden in SFR mainline. And due to obvious reasons, Hatsumi sensei will not help him out there. The only way to continue that line through Tanemura soke is to continue the line as Tanemura-ha

 

SBuck74 posted

:bang:

OH dear why oh why can't people get what i'm saying here.

I'm not saying that George is lying about his 5th dan, what i'm saying is that its a bit disingenuous to claim that grades in the Bujinkan are worthless, and then use your own Bujinkan grade as some kind of statement of your ability.

It really is that simple, so please stop reading more into it than that.

Well the youtube clips (Saying Ninjutsu) aside I agree with you, i'm only talking about the above point.

Agree

It doesn't matter if no one has come ion from your website. The point i'm making is obvious. Well I thought it was:hat:

 

Benkyoka posted

Nearly 28:hat:

 

Because you missed the cojoining post by mattt.

According to you, japan is the only place where decent training happens AND also where the ryu ha can be learnt. These two facts are connected yet independent.

Therefore according to your definition Training outside of japan is in 99% Of cases worthless for
a) Knowining effective BTJ
b) Knowing the Ryu ha

 

Actually, I saw your response to mattt.

I never said anything about knowing BBT that I can recall. I'm only interested in the ryu. If you are in the Bujinkan, Japan is. I can't speak for the other two pegs and their grading practices. Regardless, transmission is different from just being shown the techniques.

 

a. It depends on your definiton of BTJ. There are some great teachers teaching in the BJK. They have great skill and can teach you a lot about fighting using concepts found in the 9 ryuha. These teachers tend to have a background in other martial arts and have a good way of intepreting what they learn in japan. For instance Sven Eric.

b. Knowing the ryuha is a different matter. That requires a deshi relationship of trust with one of the Japanese shihan still teaching the kata of the ryuha.
In japan most of the japanese shihan don't teach ryuha kata as much.
Shihan like Noguchi sensei for instance doesnt really teach ryuha kata but likes to do 20 of them in one lesson, if not more. I dont think that is teaching the ryuha kata. Nagato sensei only very seldom teaches ryuha kata and bases his training mostly on what other people bring in.
Other shihan like Ishizuka sensei, Seno sensei and Someya sensei focus much more on the ryuha kata. For instance Isizuka sensei will do about 2 kata per lesson and for most people doesnt take the time to really correct or teach them. So most people going to japan for 2 weeks means they get at the most 10 kata once, from one shihan. Hardly the basis for good ryuha training. Most people teaching ryuha kata in the BJK base what they do on the notes of others either directly, or indirectly by training with people who teach what they learned from teachers who base their training on the notes of others. Now a lot of people in the BJK study ryuha based on the dvds of the Genbukan and the Jinenkan. Which is kind of ridiculous to me because the move in a different way.
So for good ryuha training from westerners you need to train with somebody who lived in japan for a long time, has a uchi deshi relationship with one of the shihan teaching ryuha kata, that has access to the densho. For instance Kacem Zoughari.

 

Or develop an uchi deshi relationship with a shihan yourself?

 

That requires living in Japan, Its not something I can do at this moment although I have in the past.

 

Why is transmission different from being shown the techniques? At the end of the day, if you are able to replicate every technique from a Ryu perfectly what more is there?

 

So your relationship is with Kacem? If you visit Japan and Kacem is not there at the time and train with Ishizuka he will not help you?

 

My relationship is with Kacem. I believe he is the best connection to the source 'outside of' Japan at this moment. But that is just my opinion.

Ishizuka sensei will help almost everybody that is willing to learn, is polite and thats put in the effort. He did for me in the past and probably will in the future. Do I receive transmission from Ishizuka sensei like I do from Kacem? No.

 

How would you say it is different between the two? Is it that Kacem has more interest in your development and will be more proactive in helping and looking at the long term and how the class fits into that as opposed to a helpful pointer during class?

 

A large part of transmission is being shown the techniques, true.
But who has the eyes to see? Who has the perfect techniques to show?
Most people are not shown the techniques correctly.
It also encompasses showing the correct movement, totally incorperating corrections in your movement, receiving the densho, the kuden, the ura waza, the explanation of the relationship between the kata, the historical context, and on a soke level of transmission receiving the Taiden, Shinden and Jitsuden.