Punching correctly in the Takamatsuden

I'll try. I thought "ass" was profane, the British "****" sounds much more civilised anyway.

 

Punches can affect people differently. A punch to the liver causes different kind of pain than one to the solar plexus. The chin is of course for a knockout. Chancing hand shapes is a bit hokey pokey though. Sometimes when I'm messing with my brother I'll stick my middle knuckle out or bring my fist down like a hammerfist on top of his head but that's all I can think of. I lol at knife hands tbh.

 

How the inertia is transfered can change as well, a push kick is different from a snap kick.
It's one of the reasons people with 'heavy hands' exist.

 

There are only a few things which really matter with regard to the effects of impact.

Location/trajectory

Impact force transferred to target

Area of impact

If we compare like with like, say a boxing straight, wing chun straight, and your ninja straight punch on the same location/trajectory with the same amount of impact force, and using the same sized fist then the results will be the same.

 

Using the Bruce Lee analagy,

If A ball and chain is swung with 5 newtons
And a poll is thrust with 5 newtons

Do they both damage the same amount of robot?

 

Not initiation, impact force.

If the ball hits with with an impact force of 50 newtons and I mount the ball on a pneumatic cylinder rod so it will impact with a force of 50 newtons it will do the exact same amount of damage.

 

Even when the target isn't fixed?
If pneumatic rod is too slow the target can ride it, not so much with the ball.

 

It's the ability to transfer a lot of force over a little time that (partially) makes heavy handed boxers.

 

Now you're removing the isolation of variables. That's not a scientific test.

 

Your test is overly simpfied.

That's not vscientific either.

And that's not even mentioning that circlar strikes lead to KOs more often due to how's KOs work.

 

Doesn't it seem like a lot of the scientific hypothesizing could be gotten around by putting on some headgear and gloves and, you know, hitting each other with this ninjutsu punch?

 

I would say it's exactly as simplified as it needs to be. If I punch you in the sternum and the impact has X amount of force it doesn't matter whether it's a karate tsuki, wing chun straight, or boxing straight. The result will be the same because the impact force, target/trajectory, and impact area are the same.

 

I'm just here for debate!

But yea, been there done that, turns out I've got slightly heavy, slow and massively telegraphed hands, but that's under boxing rules, if they just stood there and let me hit em, (not too hard this is play remember) ithey'd go down every time (if their a good uke).

 

But that's the thing, different mechanics lead to different trajectories, impacts and impact forces.

There is a better mousetrap.

 

I can see SWC Sifu Ben's point about the same object, with the same shape and materials, hitting with the same impact force, over the same surface area, at the same angle... should have the same result, independent of delivery method.

However, I think Fusen makes a better point that the model is oversimplified.

I think the surface tension and integrity of the object (even if the same object) makes a difference on penetration. I think this is influenced by movement on impact or what I refer to as "bounce".

On impact there is an opposing force in the opposite direction. The fist changes shape as a result of this force momentarily, and the left over opposing force is not absorbed by the hand, is converted into "bounce back".

Structure and alignment are the very important in factoring against the bounce back. For example, if I punched some big body builder in the stomach and my wrist was not proper aligned, the bounce back could cause my wrist to bend and even break. If, however, I had proper alignment at the wrist and forearm, then the bounce back would transfer next to the elbow and shoulder, etc.

Bounce is bad for power. If I punch the body builder and I knock myself backwards with my own punch, that means less actual penetration/damage to the target. If instead, I punch the body builder and I don't move backwards from bounce, this means all the force is transferred into the target.

Now that bounce is understood, hopefully. We have to talk about shock absorbers. When you punch something, if you are like a steel rod, you have very little shock absorption. Any weak point along the line will get "rattled". You actually will lose connection with the ground, and be easily uprooted.

If, however, you have a punching technique more like a battering ram, you have a striking point, but your whole body is like a shock absorber transferring the counter force into the ground. When the counter force goes into the ground, a counter-counter force instantly goes back up the body and into the target. This transfers even more force through the target.

The steel rod is a single linear force kind of like an impaling force. The steel rod with shock absorbers (e.g. battering ram) is more like a crushing force because you get shock waves from both directions.

Impaling force is good if it penetrates target (break through the armor, skin, and bones), but has much more bounce back if you don't. Crushing force is generally better if you are not able to penetrate through the target armor, skin, bones.

 

Are you mad??? far too deadly! The bodycount would be off the charts!!!

 

It's called a cat

 

I think I've been taught better punching in 4 jkd classes than in 18 months of ninjutsu