Should any martial art system using Shaolin in their name be allowed to use this name without a verifiable link to Shaolin Temple? Should they be held accountable to their right to the usage of their name? I’ve been researching the links between Shaolin Kempo and their related systems but there is no Shaolin link that is strong enough to justify the usage of the Shaolin name. Most of the links are very minor and are in fashion a reflection of Shaolin. Most of the links that seem to be promising turn out to be like this that includes Mitoses myth. http://www.kempokai.com/history.htm
Good question. Obviously the name came into Vogue with the TV series in the 1970's but before that It seems that it was from the idea that most martial arts trace their roots back to the Shaolin Temple at some point in their distant past. I have heard various things but that the first person to call their art "Shaolin Kenpo" was Prof. Chow. He dropped this in favor of one of his various names for his art (there were several that I can't remember) and Then Castro picked it up. After that, I think it was Villari that used it with the keMpo spelling. I don't know why Prof. Chow called his art Shaolin Kenpo in the first place. Perhaps others here could shed light on that one.
... Probably because Professor Chow learned Kung-Fu from his father... This is just my educated guess--
.. Professor changed the name of his art several times, I believe the first time was to distance himself from Mitose. Question for AKJA: I am only familiar with Shotokan from research but why do you feel it is not a good art? (Your post may have been on MT, I toggle between them, sorry) Take care guys and remember to come out fighting! LOL
According to questionable sources, the evolution of Shaolin Kempo moves are as follows: Defensive Maneuvers 1-21 come from Kejukenbo Defensive Maneuvers 22-27 stem from Kara Zenpo Goshin Jitsu Many Kempo Punch Techniques and club and knife defenses are derived from Kajukenpo Katas 1-5 are from Kara Zenpo Goshin Jitsu The Pinans are standard to most traditional martial arts http://www.answers.com/topic/united-studios-of-self-defense This is were I found this take from it what you will.
Well, you're referring to Villari's version of SKK here. The DMs are not from Kajukenbo with the exception of DM #4. The rest are from Karazenpo as far as I know. There are no set knife, club or punch counters in SKK aside from the Combinations/DMs, so they vary widely from place to place. Kata's 1-5 are from Karazenpo and Pinan 1-5 are variants of Shotokan kata that have been modified by either Pesare or others that followed him.
There are some knife and gun combos in ussd but i dont remeber them or where they came from. I just dont like how ussd says they teach shaolin when there is no shaolin in their system. :bang:
The cirriculum of the "Original Method" of Kajukenbo is as follows: Palama Sets (katas) 1-14 Punch Counters 1-21 Grab Arts 1-15 Club Counters 1-13 Knife Counters 1-15 Alphabets A-Z 2-Man Counters 1-8 3-Man Counters 1-6 4-Man Counter 1 The only technique in Shaolin Kempo that resembles Kajukenbo is "DM-4", which is similiar, but not the same as "Punch Counter 6". So apparently over the generations the Kajukenbo has been removed from what became Shaolin Kempo.
Although questionable. That site did lead to what I was asking. Pretty much anyone can use the Shaolin name because today there are no direct ties to the Shaolin temple except for the ones that some instructors are trying to make which their instructors did not do before them. Mike Rash trained for a summer at the Shaolin Temple and was awarded a diploma of sort to teach 1 form. In the old days that would be unheard of no matter what the skill the student had before hand. Wing Chun for instance took about 10 years to be an instructor. They have 3 forms and it "used to take" 3 years for just the first form and much of the 1st year would be spent mopping and general cleaning the Kwoon or Temple. I think the Shaolin Temple is to commercial and the usage of Shaolin dosen't mean anything and nobody has exclusive rights to it. It has become as generic as the words Kempo and Ju Jitsu which are untrademarkable and belong to no-one and everyone. But at the same time if a group calling themself by a generic name and someone falsely represented them, then the ownership of the name comes into play. Although a tricky issue, safeguards should be put into place so that does not happen.
And who exactly is going to police this? What jurisdiction does it fall under? And who will enforce penalties?
This "Real Shaolin" business is a bit confusing to put it mildly. I was at a seminar with the Shaolin Monks hosted by the USSD in 2003 in Anaheim. They taught us a form and performed for us the following day. Well, it was mostly acrobatics mixed with kung fu. It was what has been referred to as "modern wu shu" and it has little or nothing to do with what the original Shaolin Monks taught and practiced a century ago. To get that, you have to look at the traditional Kung Fu schools that had their origins in the Shaolin School. There were MANY arts that came out of the original Shaolin Temples Northern and Southern. Having said that, what the Shaolin Monks showed us had NOTHING to do with Shaolin Kempo Karate. Yes yes the Abbot (read Puppet for Chinese Govt.) read us some prepared statement that said we were practicing real kung fu etc., but it had far more to do with the fact that the USSD gave them a reported $150,000.00 . This also got the USSD a monument at the Shaolin Temple. Ah yes, I can see it now, the image of Kwai Chang Caine next to the USSD monument. What a joke. Most of the real Shaolin practitioners went to Taiwan in the early 20th century and stayed there. The Monks that are there now have far more in common with Jackie Chan's Chinese Opera training than real Kung Fu. It's impressive to look at, but it's not real fighting.
I wish I had 150K to blow. You wouldn't find me in here thats for sure. I always thought the name I chose for my system was not associated close enough to create problems but I see that to not be true. As I see the Shaolin mess, I see my own mess. Martial art names can be misleading and sometimes we need to guarantee that we are not associated with those with similar named systems.
"...then let the name of Shaolin be wiped out, for that is what it is, just a name. Please don't fuss over it." :love:
This came up last night in class, we had a prospective student, who asked about the name "is this like Shaolin temple style?" and I told him no, it was not. I told him that "Kempo" in Japan is a broad term that refers to any art of Chinese origin, and that early developers of SKK called their style "Shaolin" to indicate, and honor, the chinese style elements built into the system. I also told him it was called that to help market it, because people knew what "Shaolin" was and what "karate" was, but Shaolin Kempo Karate is neither Shaolin nor Karate. So he, of course, asked where it came from and I said...
In the past there have been some very effective campaigns run by the Chinese governments to wipe out various forms of kempo. The last one, in 1911 was particularly effective, wiping out many schools and killing many teachers. This has made verifiable documentation or first hand witness testimonials scarce. When Doshin So was there studying under Wen-Lanshi, his second teacher and the 20th head of the North Shaolin Temple Ihermen-thuen (Giwamonken in Japanese) style the temple was all but abandoned, there were very few people in general studying kempo at this time. Guns where relatively cheap quick to learn how to use and more effective. When Doshin So replaced Wen-Lanshi as the 21st head of this Shaolin style (debated by some) he had no desire to teach it for a living and stated he only accepted it to make his master happy. During the 1970’s the Chinese Government approached him and asked if he would reintroduce the art to the Shaolin Temple, unfortunately he died of a heart attack before being able to do so. Even though our art is named Shorinji Kempo (Shaolin Temple Kempo) it is not the art that Doshin So learned, it is a restructuring of his total knowledge. The name has more to do with the philosophy and ideals that he wanted to recreate than the martial art. A couple of photos of Doshin So's return to the Shaolin Temple. The elderly monk greeting him was the caretaker there when Doshin So underwent his transmission of leadership ceremony
I think what he's saying is that "Shaolin" died out at the actual Shaolin temples. Mostly due to government oppression and persecution. The teachings spread and flourished outside of mainland China, in Taiwan (Formosa), and the English colony of Hong Kong. After President Nixon re-opened relations with China, it became a tourist thing to make a prigrimage to "the Shaolin Temple". When my instructor (Gary Forbach) and a American group of martial artists were invited by the Chinese government to visit China in 1981, they found that there were only 7 monks living at the temple at the time, and that martial arts was no longer practiced at the temple. Since then the government has filled the temple with monks trained in the official Chinese martial sport of wu-shu. It's one of the most popular tourist attractions in China. Tourists mean $$$ to China, so they've put a lot of effort back into popularizing the temple.
That would answer a lot of questions. We see a lot Shaolin marketing and I wondered how they could let that happen. So they may see Mattera and Demasco as helping them and that might explain their connection to the Temple.
