Hi Melanie, George Dillman first promoted his concept of PP fighting and no blocks in kata after training with Seiyu Oyata of Ryukyu Kempo. Oyata graded Dillman to 7th Dan in a relatively short period and before long Dillman began teaching seminars and selling tapes and books. Oyata's students say that Dillman only received a few pieces of the puzzle and hasn't got the big picture. Dillman's supporters say that Dillman had enough to allow him to complete his own research. In any case, PP striking and manipulationis nothing new. Nearly every Okinawan and Japanese karate adept that has written a book has referenced them but without explanation Gichin Funakoshi says it is an advantage to know where to strike to be most effective and describe these as vital points. I prefer the term 'vulnerable points' but it is much of a muchness. A smaller person can overcome the disadvantage of size by making their strikes count by not just knowing but training in striking to these areas. I don't believe in the combat-value of striking a sequence of points instead preferring to attack the targets that present themselves.. pretty much along the same lines as Rick's group. What is notmentioned enough is the fact that one needs both mental and physical training to effectively execute techniques. Modern kumite develops a strong and calm mind under pressure and a study of kata application provides the knowledge. However only appropriate physical training will allow an individual to be effective in executing these techniques. In olden times, the Okinawan students had their own version of kumite, the rules were a little different but they had a sort of non-contact type of pushing hands right through to a full contact no rules type of fight training that was not condoned by their teachers. Modern karate needs to be taught cmprehensively as all areas interlock or mesh very well. Unfortunately the bunkai enthusiasts decry modern kumite as too much sport and the sport karateka deride the bunkai crowd as karateka that can't fight. The answer is to cover both areas. Steven Webster does so, and so do I. Our competitors do well in kata and kumite competition and also train extensively in kata application and in our case, kobudo as well. We continue to develop in all areas over time and this makes the training always interesting. Regards, Ozebob
So far as my basic introduction to pressure points goes I think that such areas that have to be hit with precision to cause muscle groups to stop working or your lungs to collapse, or whatever else, can only be done by someone who lives up a mountain in Tibet and does nothing but train, eat and sleep. A cruder, hit hard and if you get a pressure point; cool, attitude has to be taken by those who don`t have the time to train 16 hours a day
I agree ... but the more we train to hit those points the higher our percentage of hitting them becomes. Aiming for them becomes reflexive and our striking, percentage-wise, becomes more effective because we more often connect with the points purely through conditioned reflex. Mike
So train for the highest accuracy you can, and when it goes live and the adrenaline screws up your co-ordination, you'll probably just end up hittin them in the general area very hard? Remember, pressure points aren't just a strike thing, they're a push, pinch and gouge thing as well! Thanx
Probably the easiest way to realise the potential of pressure points is to understand what they are doing to the body. All they are doing is using pain to get a large reaction out of the body. Have someone stand in front of you and relax. Poke them in the side, just under the ribs. They flinch and bend over right? Now poke them again and push them on the neck with your other hand in the opposite direction to the other hand (think steering wheel). They fall over. Put your fingertips to the front of your throat and relax. Push back. Involutarily you will move back. These are two applications pressure points. All you need to do is test your body and find out what does and doesn't hurt. What most people think of "pressure points" are those spots that you can tap and cause a person to have the runs for weeks (yes its true). These are just the most violent of these "vulnerable spots" on the body. When you go to hit someone in the face, what do you aim for? chin? - stunning blow, puts pressure on the brain, cheek? - intense pain, ear? popped ear drum, loss of balance, disorientation. These all cause a major reaction in the body. Is this not the point of hitting someone? Just have a think about all those sensitive areas that you don't like being hit in. Kidney, groin, face, neck. Now think back to when you were a kid. Did you ever pinch anyone? get pinched? well it hurts. Same with a poke. Go for a nice sensitive spot like the back of the knee, armpit, kidney area, neck, jawline. They all hurt. Not enough to make you cry (well some will) but still enough to make you distracted for a second. That is all you should need. Probably the best way to study the movements you can enduce on people is in wrestling. Someone trying to choke you with your GI/shirt and are on top of you? get your fingers under their jaw and push them back. See how long they sit there before trying to stop you. This way if they do something to you, you can watch for it. In essence all pressure points are doing is amplyfying whatever effect you are trying to get from the person. They are great for moving people into lock posittions because they are all involuntary reactions. Oh and why would you loose your focus in a fight situation? I find adrenaline enhances my reflexes and perception and then without time for thought automatic resposes take over. If you have trouble with this try meditation it helps alot.
Yup. And your body's conditioned reflexes should be trained to take advantage of this too. The push, pinch, gouge points would be there to be taken advantage of in a grappling situation and your body will reflexively take advantage of them ... if you've trained them. The more you train your accuracy and the motion, the more likely you are perform them. If you don't train them then there is no chance of hitting them at all (aside from blind luck). I'd rather hit to the general area than to randomly hit all over the body As far as adrenaline (and the cornucopia of other factors in a fight) screwing up your coordination ... absolutely. But the better trained your accuracy is, the more you increase your odds of hitting it. We can never reach perfection ... this is an obvious. But, I'll use some random numbers to illustrate this point (these numbers are in no way scientific ... just arbitrary numbers to make a point about something I've experienced). Technique A has to be done at 80% of perfection to be effective. If I've only trained Technique A to 80% of perfection then, in a fight, when I'm working at less than my 100% due to all of stress, adrenaline, and other factors, then, I won't have a prayer of making it work. If, however, I've trained it to 95% (i.e.: I hit it dead on 95% of the time in training and I train the hell out of it), then I've got a 15% leeway and now I have a chance of pulling it off in a fight. I've, effectively, turned a fine motor skill into a gross motor skill. Just like walking. When a toddler first starts walking, it's a "fine motor" skill that the toddler can't to under stress of any kind. As a young child, he's better at it but still has trouble if he gets distracted (i.e.: chewing bubble gum and walking). As an adult, he has done it enough that walking has become a "gross motor" skill. He no longer has to give it any thought. Even if he gets distracted, his body will keep walking (he may walk into an obstacle or something ... but he isn't likely to just tip over by getting distracted). If we train anything enough, it can be useful in a real fight. If we don't train it then it never will be. All any of our training does is increase the odds of doing it right when the chips are down. The only guarantee in a fight is that there *are* no guarantees. Mike
quote: So train for the highest accuracy you can, and when it goes live and the adrenaline screws up your co-ordination, you'll probably just end up hittin them in the general area very hard? Remember, pressure points aren't just a strike thing, they're a push, pinch and gouge thing as well! Why am I not surprised it was you who mentioned "gouging"
The adrenaline dump you get when faced with a scrap give you tunnel vision, you think your senses are enhanced and they are, but only straight in front of you. Yes it does make you faster but at the cost of your accuracy (fine motor function) also in the heat of the moment you just want the b*****d on the pavement, in pain. The more your exposed to this, the easier it becomes to control (breathing helps). If you've never been in a fight you can't really understand what i'm trying to convey. If your training envirnoment is 100% comfortable then your kidding yourself that you can handle this. Thanx
Sorry that that bit sounded so bad. Wasn't really thinking just babbling on the keyboard. but that saying I've found that after realising that unless the other person is trying to stab you then there is no real reason to get excited and there is never a reason to get angry. True you still the adrenaline but if you still have your wits about you and not clouded with rage, anger or bloodlust you can use it to your advantage. It is probably also to do with the source of the adrenaline, is it fear induced or just physical excerise. Also I am a strange person and don't care whether you punch me in the head or not. One scenario I'm dead/unconcious/in tremedoud amounts of pain and the other nothing happened. If I'm dead so what? I don't care I'm dead. If I'm unconcious then I still don't care until I wake up. If I'm in pain I will only look for the next blow but if none come then It's all good again - a little pain never hurt anybody - pain is good it lets us know we are alive. Very little scares me now but when I have a near miss in my car (too frequent to be good) then I get the butterflies (I love 'em), stop thinking and act. My reflexes take over then thought returns with my body still pumping (reflex action only a fraction of a second). What does it matter if I get beaten up in a fight? What does it matter if I die? Why do people care about little things so much?
Your attitudes are pretty similar to mine. Except that, with my driving record, I don't even get butterflies anymore in near misses in the car I'm not sure if you're taking tangent or not, Darzeka. But, for the moment, I'll assume you're not (unless you correct me). The fine motor skill degradation and the tunnel vision have little to do with emotions ... emotions can increase these effects ... and, hopefully, our training works to nullify this. But even without emotional content, the chemical dump is what really promotes these side effects. While these chemicals (adrenaline, endorphins, and others) are created in your body ... they are still drugs ... so you get high. They have an impact on your mind and your perception. When you get hit, regardless of emotional impact, the physical side takes place ... some chemicals get dumped into your system, your heart rate picks up, your breathing rate increases (and, if someone isn't trained to control it, it usually gets pretty shallow). Your depth perception may be affected, you may tunnel vision (as a physical result of the chemicals). Time seems distorted. All of this adds up and when you move you may be moving a bit faster or slower than what you perceive. So, your "block" may be too soon and just open your line for the guy's shot. Your "strike" may be fired overzelously and (due to distorted depth perception) may miss completely. It's kinda like being in a hurry and thinking there's another step at the top of the stairs ... you end up stumbling on thin air. Training (especially hard, if not full, contact sparring) helps reduce the impact that these effects have. Through training (again, this is particularly relevant to hard sparring), we become intimate with our body's reactions under stress and we learn to cope with it. The emotions can make these physical effects even more dramatic ... so our training is also to help us reduce the impact our emotions have on it ... or to cope with the impact they do have. Ideally, we learn how to use all of this (especially the knowledge of how the fight is likely affecting our opponent) to our advantage ... but "learning" it and "doing" it are two different beasts and none of us can know, with certainty, how we will react until the fit hits the shan. Training increases our odds. And, having been in previous "situations" increases our odds. But it's still no guarantee. Each "situation" (real world confrontation) is different and unique (though many share similarities) and must be dealt with on the spur of the moment. How we react in one is an indicator, but not a guarantee, of how we may act in the next. Training and experience are our only methods of preparation ... but, ultimately, all they can do is increase our odds. Mike
In Kempo Ryu virtually every strike goes to pressure points but it isn't actually taught as pressure points (they aren't even discussed really). Shunryu Kempo has a lot of pressure points in it and they ARE discussed as Sensei Adam Merton (http://www.shunryu-kempo.co.uk) is a member of Prof Rick Clark's Ao Denkou Kai and has always been interested in pressure points. In TKD we don't really do them yet but I'm starting to introduce them and will use basic points (not necessarily teaching them as so) in my Practical TKD class.
There's a good article on the judoinfo site about what actually happens to cause the reaction when you engage a pressure point - worthwhile reading. Another interesting thing about pressure points are that although they cause I'M-NOT-MESSING-AROUND type of pain to a person, they also can be used to heal and to increase blood flow to areas that need it. Just don't make the mistake of appling one to a person you're trying to control because it tends to aggrevate rather than subdue an opponent.
If you believe in Ki, it`s because activating a Pressure point in one way allows the Ki to flow in the correct manner and is beneficial to the body. Causing the flow of Ki to stop or slow down is not, thus the pain.
Jim, Healing and harming go hand in hand. If you the ability to heal using these methods, you also have the ability to harm.
One thing I'd like to point out to people is that generally PP's don't end fights. They can be used as a close control to remove someone from an area or to obtain an extreme reaction from the body, usually to expose highly unprotected areas. When using PP's for close control apply the PP hold and bang it on hard (to give an idea I'll use some totally meaningless numbers) about 80% then back off to about 60%, if they give you any hassle, bang it on for a second up to about 90% then back off again to 60%. This is because the body can adapt to a baseline level of pain, if you disrupt this it makes it harder for the guy to resist. Thanx
Why dn't we ever see anybody looking to disable people in fights (street/competition/UFC style)? The vast majority of fights I've seen involve both people looking to knock out their opponent with head strikes locks or chokes. Apart from the round leg kicking of kick boxing I have witnessed no attacks that are specifically for the limiting of an opponents arsenal. Remember giving your mates dead arms in school? How little effort did the strikes need to completely deaden someone's arm. Now if I hit one of the three PP's (i think theres three) that do this with a full force strike then the will have an extremely sore arm and possibly won't be able to use it. Most people are only expecting attacks to the head and stomach with distractions to their legs. Also striking down on top of the fleshy part of the shoulder above the collar bone hurts an incredible amount and also has a chance of disabling that side of the body, along with breaking the collar bone. these are a couple, I could think of more but does anyone else have any they use or know of?
The arm thing isn't a PP its the end of a muscle, the same as when you get a dead leg. I don't know the exact physiology behind it but I expect it causes a type of spasm after which you can't tense the muscle effectively. Striking down on the collar bone does hurt like hell, but all the PP's in that area are behind the collar bone so it would be very hard to strike into the PP area and break the collar bone at the same time (unless you were using a hammer). Even if you broke the collar bone your leg wouldn't be affected. The only real PP's on your arm (rough areas) are the inside of your upper arm, the inside top area of your forearm, the inside wrist area and the infamous 1980's womans self defence one (the area between your thumb and forefinger). Having been subjected to all of these and more around the body, and having been hurt by very knowledgeable people the only time I've had a limb rendered useless is through the dead muscle method, not PP's. p.s I forgot the upper inside arm, just above the elbow joint.
Mascism 101: Try the PP in the top of the foot between the bone leading to the Big Toe and the 2nd Toe. A new kind of pain...
Here's an excellent research paper on the "Anatomy of Pain" http://www.ahs.uwaterloo.ca/~ranney/painanat.html
