Practicality of "movie" technqiues

@ Rand86

I actually thank you a lot for the videos. This was actually the type of answer I was hopeing to get from my original question.

I must say that some of my preconceptions about the art have changed. But also some of them have actually been re-enforced.

I think what you did is proper, so no shame in that. I have some issues with the clips, but that's going to be a whole other arguement, so not going to happen .

 

L_G: still got you on "Ignore" but I admit I'm reconsidering.

If anything, I hope I convinced you you would not "disrespect" the art by asking to spar people; though I'd suggest finding someone who has comparable amount of time in cap as you do in TKD. I don't mind admitting you'd probably walk all over me in a sparring match but then again, I'm not exactly the bee's knees like some guys who've literally put in years of blood, sweat and tears into training.

 

... oh, and STJ - can I still place a bet?

 

Not shaking my head as much as you might think, Rand (though I had shaken it at least a little--more on that later). Thanks for posting the videos. Think I'll look through them later tonight and comment from there.

Thanks to L_G for at least taking the time to consider/reconsider.

paz,

dormindo

 

... it's the "JCVD movies" bit, isn't it?

 

EXACTLY right! Its almost essential to spar with different arts so that you can experience the way they do things. If all you do is spar against fellow shotokan practitioners then if you ever have to defend yourself against, say, a CAP practitioner or a savate player you're in for a rude awakening. Mind you I dont mean YOU personally, Blade, I mean you in the general sense.

Some of the best light contact sparring I ever did was against a friend who knew some form of shaolin kung fu rather well. Until that point Id only sparred against fellow Karate practitioners (TKD, okinawan, etc) so it was an eye opener indeed. Forced me to really look outside linear attacks and expect circles and angles.

Or even better yet, spar against someone who doesnt know anything other than what he or she had to learn growing up. Street brawlers tend to develop their on styles and methods of doing things that are based on instinct and comfort rather than anything structured or refined. Its a challenge sometimes to say the least.

 

Yep, it was largely this^^^.

paz,

dormindo

 

After two very full days of pre-semester grad student duties, Im here to check the videos out. I'll take these on one by one and may not get to all right now as I have family to attend to, too (when she gets home).

Well, I give them props for stepping up to spar outside of their comfort zone. All that you said is true and I'd add that the rasteira attempts often seemed half hearted. I'm thinking that cabecadas were not allowed (and it's obvious that cabecadas to the face would not be allowed), but might be interesting to see how that might affect things--though the capoeiristas may have just ended up in headlocks.

One point to their favor is that they were kicking for targets on the body--beyond the opponent's guard. Guy in one of the other videos to be discussed later seemed to kick his opponent's guard a lot. Interesting, though many of the mistakes that they made were things that they shouldn't have done--even in a capoeira roda, where there is less of a threat of being choked out.

It's a beginning, though, I suppose.

paz,

dormindo

 

Yes, I like this later stuff from the group, though there are still some things I'm a bit critical of (and I'm feeling funny pointing this out as it is obviously just video of practice, and not them actually in the jogo or sparring). At the :37 mark and several other times in the video, there is a cocorinho (squat) or other esquiva (escape) under a kick and no counter--such as, say, cabecada (headbutt), rasteira (sweep) or rabo de arraia/meia lua de compasso. The kick goes unchallenged. At :56 one guy is going into role de banco/ponte (backbend) for no discernible reason and putting himself at risk. I have seen this move used to go under attacks and even to counter--but not like that. Lastly, at 1:18, the kicks the guy on the left throws are, to me, unnecessary. Might've been better to give rasteira as partner comes towards the end of his role a split second later.

Still, cool to watch.

Won't comment on the two buddies sparring at school. The things you said above are true, but the video seems like just a goof to me--which, in all fairness, you've indicated above.

Get to the rest tomorrow.

paz,

dormindo

 

If the fancy stuff works then why isn't our military, police force and security training in butterfly kicks, 720 spin kicks and learning to twirl their batons instead of just hitting people with them?

 

Certainly, the stuff in movies is meant first and foremost to entertain. Efficiency, even factual/historical accuracy can often play a secondary/tertiary/nonexistant role.

paz,

dormindo

 

Glad you changed your mind a little bit.

Heh. i found that out when I was in a few judo classes and i almost jab punched a little judoka. And got pinned down by the same little one a bit later.

 

In my defense I was like ten or twelve at the time. I came a looong way since then. Not that I am any less of an idiot, mind, just more self-aware about it.

Thanks for the analysis so far. And I guess I just run with a particularly headlock-happy bunch because not a month goes by without someone trying to catch me in one. Keeps you on your toes, I guess.

I am actually guilty of doing that bit with ponte myself - my instructor usually corrects me with a stomp or kick (marked, mind you - but some messages are all too clear).

Looking forward to hearing more!

 

Hoi Rand,

I guess it was a philosophical issue; I joined cap to learn cap, and not to test my TKD. But next time i meet a cap guy, I'll be sure to ask him

P.S. the guy in the first video, not the cap guy but the other one. What style was he actually using? the video says Kung Fu, but to me it looks more like an MMA stlye :S

 

One does not preclude the other. That'd still be "learning cap," just in a more direct fashion. :evil:

Damned if I know, TBH. Might have been a san shou dude, might have been a vale tudo guy with a background in KF. I actually learned the RNC/headwrench thingy he does a few times from a KF dude, so there. Whatever he is, he sure looks like he can handle himself.

 

If only I read this a few years ago

Yeh my guess is san shou, but I've never rlly seen any san shou guys use chokes before, but evidently they do have em, just don't use them in the ring (rules...). But yeh the way he works those hold and chokes, he is set for SD.

 

Oh, and dormindo - here are some actual jogos from Yawaresa.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVUXe3PAZUQ"]Capoeira Yawaresa 1 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7cl-8dxx6U"]Grupo de Capoeira Yawaresá 2 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lvxg1Hirr4"]Grupo de Capoeira Yawaresá 3 - YouTube[/ame]

Definitely made a more favorable impression on me, but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

 

Just joking with that comment, actually. I hope to get the analysis done of the other videos--including the new ones you've posted today. Sorry to take so long, but I've been appointed to several positions in both the real and virtual worlds just days ago and am going through an adjustment period.

paz,

dormindo

 

I was joking too actually but getting the smileys here to work only aggravates my current headache.

And I feel you on the real and virtual world side of things - heck, if I acctually had anything better to do I probably wouldn't bother responding to L_G in the first place.

So take your time, I'm most likely not going anywhere.

 

On the first video in the quote above, I'll add to your comments that the guy is enthusiastic about kicking--though he could stand to be better. There were many times that he kicked the guy's guard (without the guy even having to move) because he misjudged the distance. Just as often, the opponent saw what was coming and got out of the way.

Oops, gotta go. More later.

paz,

dormindo