The above is an excerpt from a quote from the discussion in the Jump Inside Kick thread. I would like to explore this point and other ways that forms help or hurt our understanding of power generation. I have never used the terminolgy "sling system" although I think I understand what was meant. I will state it here, please correct me if I am wrong. The idea is to get the weight of the body engaged in the strike. Big things take have more mass but take longer to get moving hence they move first. Then the next biggest thing moves, and since it has less mass it can move faster and hence catch up to the first. Finally the smallest thing moves, it moves the fastest. At the point of impact all elements should be at their maximum velocities. At the point of impact you brace the elements together to form a kinetic chain so that the energy delivered is the sum of the energies of the elements within the chain. If I didn't mess my description up it should cover everthing from a cross a to a flying sidekick. So the question is then, does forms practice help us develop power in this way?
probably not, but i suppose it would help with explosive power. master alex said in a seminar this week that the reason we do staff spinning with feet together is because its harder than doing it with feet apart, thus making the technique stronger. could the same be said about the techniques we peform in hyungs?
ok so how is that true. did he explain ? how does having the feet together versues 5 inches apart make it better???
Not to be disrespectful to Master Alex, but wouldnt this be one of those "like duh" statements, I mean isn't it harder to stand feet togehter than apart. I dont see how the technique changes strength with either the feet apart or together. I could maybe buy into the fact that the body could be stronger with the feet together because it aligns the spine thus aligning all the other parts of the body, maybe this is what he was talking about (He is a chiropractor, one would think he knows this kind of stuff), If the body is stronger wouldnt that make the techique stronger? IDK.
ok i think all can visualise this.... try punching a target with your feet together, then try punching a target with your feet apart.... hey presto there you go... it allows you to put your weight behind the techniques better. cheers
Right, but the staff generates its power from speed and the smooth transitions between circular patterns. not strength of muscle.
Thats when you transitioning from 1 spin to another. How else do you get the speed if you dont use muscle. You get the technique right, and THEN use strength/power... then you be the bomb at it. I mean does the staff magically make itself faster? Traditional kuksool ruins getting power into things. (except kicks) i seem to think its better, practicing from low down gets you strong for kicking its the same technique whether your low or high. It DEFO ruins hand striking. Horse stance strikes, all your really moving is your hands and shoulders. Proper strikes use the whole body. If you ever saw the programme "fight science" they showed the various methods of punching, and how and where the power was developed. Kungfu guy was punching like we do with just our arm. Where the boxing guy made the best power, and showed that the power was developed as a whole through the body starting from twisting his heel. Nick
I believe what he might have been trying to get at was your mental take on things. It takes alot more concentration to stay legs together and knees bent while spinning because you have to have good balance and focus on not moving. Plus im sure if you practise like that for a long time, when you do move your feet apart to strike it will be alot stronger. Keeping the legs together works the muscles alot more possibly making the technique more explosive when you apply it with your feet apart. Because lets face it you would apply it with your feet apart.
I had chips and mushy peas for lunch yesterday and I'm having the same again today, 'cept from a different shop... next week I will be eating vegetables from a pot, perhaps mixed with quinoa and either: Mint sauce and a little mustard Red Thai Chilli Paste Red Pesto [Oridinary] Vegan Pesto Yum! In summary, I believe that eating fresh vegetables might be more conducive to generating power, then chips and mushy peas.
Um balance perhaps??? so if you are doing the technique wrong and throwing it from your shoulders, not locking your core and maintaining an upright body then if your feet are together you are constantly changing your point of balance and your feet together makes it harder. Simple as if you build a tower with a base of 1cm or one of 5meters same height which is more stable?
ok everyone knows how to walk right? So that comes from your legs and then transfers into your hands its not a motion you try to do it is just the connection of muscle groups to transition movement from one to the other. Thats a sling system in very basic terms. Now the way forms make these stronger is they break the sling system up so you have to generate the power that the first half naturally gives to a motion from only the second half of the movement ( everyone still with me ) The theory im suggesting that forms are for, is therefore that when you come back to generate the entire motion and have the first part of the sling reinstated that the secondary motion would then be even more powerful............... Net result more power, bigger actual possible range of motion, and therefore less chance of damaging yourself with a natural motion if thrown at pace. Discuss.
depends what angle your standing at to the pad and if you can double hip with feet together or not LOL sorry couldn't resist. Feet apart easier motion so if you develop power with feet together then the feet apart should be a gimme. Hence part of my theory on forms.
More actual power that transfers only if the strike point can withstand the normal force exerted against it by the target. As you know, you can punch someone as hard as you want, but if you punch them in the back of the head, it's probably going to break your hand. Hence, we get into conditioning, something I think is sorely missing in the curriculum for the amount of breaking we're supposed to be doing. I agree with what your saying about kinetic linking through the parts of the body that generate power. It can root from the foot, through the legs and hips, along the back and down the arm into the hands(i.e., the first punch at the beginning of Dae Gup Hyung); it can also root from the bowing of the chest outward through the arms laterally into the hands(i.e. the twin inside hook punch that occurs twice in Goo Moo Hyung). I believe the Chinese call it fa jing. I'm not sure what it's called in Korean. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to enlighten me...
Let's reduce this down to a specific example, say step forward from one long stance to another with a strike. Even with this simple example we need to look into the context of the form and ask the question, are we entering to strike or are we attempting to generate more power. I think the simplest way to look at this might be the hand formation. If the strike after the step is a spear hand, like first spear hand of Joong Guep Hyung, then I definitely do not want my whole body weight behind the strike because my poor little fingers wouldn't be able to take it. I still need to demonstrate good control of my center by not backstepping my front foot or throwing my body forward (etc..), but this has more to do with quick entry and safety than power generation in this case. If we look at the inverted spear hand strike in Joong Guep Hyung, there the step provides all the power of the strike. With your hand in the position it is in, you can visually see if it is moving up of down. If this happens it would indicate bad control of your center and posture. The strike would be a less efficient use of energy due to the extra motions and if the body structure is bad at the point of impact it would have less power. If the hand stays even, all of your energy is going forward and you can be fairly certain you maintained good posture. Finally we get to an example directly related to your theory, as in the step and punch(2nd punch) in Baek Pahl Ki Hyung. I think it is reasonable to assume that the idea in that part of the form is to get maximum power behind that punch. If we have as the rhythm of the form, step then punch, then your theory is good. We just need to get in front of a heavy bag and practice it all put together there. I have another idea though. If we look at the perfect technique, it would have the hand reach the target before the body starts to slow down, but the foot would be in contact with the floor for stability. There are two possible ways I can think of to teach a student how to achieve this perfect technique. They could attempt to hit perfect timing from day one or they could have a known error thrown in and reduce this error over time and practice. The second way probably sounds like BS right now but hang with me. The idea is to start from a known “state” that is easy to get in. This initial “state” is the movement of step, wait till body is still, and then punch. Performing the motion this way maximizes stability and minimizes power. Over time we do a few things, increase the speed of the step, increase the speed of the punch and decrease the pause between the foot touching and the hand hitting the target. Slowly over time, we can approach the perfect technique. Note that we could just as easily have gone the other way and maximized power and minimized stability by having the foot clearly in the air at the point of impact. Then we could approach the same perfect technique from a completely different direction (or idea). I’ve seen this approach advocated in a Black Belt magazine article. Sorry for the long post
I don't know the name of that strike in Korean. The important thing though is you don't need to be a powerful stance to make that strike effective. It depends primarily on angle of attack. Have you ever this technique done to you? Properly done it feels like your lungs are colapsing (at least to me).
