what happened to this thread it was going so well then got turned into personal attacks thats right nothing wrong with arguing but attacking each other like that is silly. dragging poor taoists into it like that dangerous stuff. there i thought internal martial artisits were peacefull people how wrong i was just as vicious as anyone else.
I looked this book up at Amazon. It appears this is another title to add to that big list you gave me a couple of months ago Syd. I'm slowly making my way through them and am thankful for the info. Cheers mate
I believe you are on the right track. Any Qi imbalance and stagnation leads to ill health. But if the stagnation is excessive and builds up in the Head Dantien, it might lead to mental issues. A fellow IMA student reported hearing voices when practicing advanced Yoga. Our Taoist teacher went on to explain that it was caused by Qi lodged in the head . If you like to find out more, I can suggest you contact Chinese Mental Hospitals . Not all of them have websites, and it is easy in this day and age to assume that " if it 's not on the Web, it doesn't exist" A lot of info is just not on the web, either because of Copyright issues, or it just takes up too much time or cmoney to host the site. Also when contacting Chinese mental Hospitals, you need to be a little creative in how you sussed out info. The Chinese are frequently Insructable. Most Chinese Govt organisations " don't like to admit something's wrong". There may be official denials.....especially if they are talking to a "foreigner" like you.......just like how the officials originally tried to coverup the SARS situation in Beijing, before the local whislte lower revealed that it was not 32 but several hundred detected cases. It helps to be Chinese, or to get help of local Chinese connected to these instituations...in other words, need to use the back door. About the Falun Gong, actually I used to think it was a ludricrous situation too and that the Chinese Gov was just making it all up, until recently I inquired this matter to my Taoist/ TCM teachers, ALL 3 have lived in China...they say yes, Falun methods of Qigong are too fast and unstable and does caused serious mental health issues. It's become common practice in the West to dismiss Chinese news publications as lies and state propaganda. No doubt that does exist in varying degrees , how about Australia? Is eveything reported is Sydney Morning Herald, true, unbiased and balanced? Classic example, the average Aussie traveller thinks Chewing Gum is banned in Singapore. Actually, the SALE of chewing gum is banned, not it's use or consumption. You would NOT be arrested if you brought it in or had it mailed in. Yet this WESTERN LIE persists. Just a small example that WESTERN propaganda does exist too. So before one dismisses the Falun Insanity issue as Govt propaganda, maybe one could do a bit more indepth research. Move beyond anecdotal evidence, and have a chat with several Taoist/ TCM people who HAVE LIVED in China.....not just the one's trained in Western universities.
You misunderstand, again. I mean to imply: Beware of Asian doctors of Western Medicine who insist on wearing “Eastern glasses”
In my understanding, some Chinese mythological figures are depicted with unnaturally large heads - the reason being they were so powerful they were able to accumulate jing and lead it to their head. I thought that was traditionally seen as a very positive thing. Also, SC - can you define doing qigong "wrong"? is it doing it at the wrong time of day, using slightly incorrect postures, doing excessive exercises for hours a day, doing, e.g. a lot of heart qigong if there's nothing wrong with your heart ... What is "wrong" and why is some "wrong" qigong worse than other "wrong" qigong (or no qigong at all)? Also, can you be specific about these extremely dangerous qigongs? is it a few certain exercises or just all falun gong exercises ? Also, do the qigongs cause mental illness immediately or does it take some time (how long)?
What nzric is asking is definitely the heart of my question. I too have heard from various places that qigong can be dangerous. What really interests me is, if it is true, why, and how can it be avoided? I have heard some compelling arguments in various directions, but I really haven't heard anything that sounded like a substantiated set of things to watch out for. This is what I am curious about-- what specific gongs should be avoided, if any? For instance, I have heard that certain pranayama practices can be extremely dangerous, leading to the prana or chi getting stuck in the head. My question for that, then, is how do you practice pranayama safely? What do you need to watch out for? It seems like a lot of people have very good experiences with some reported "dangerous" gongs and practices, and I am curious about what made their practice different.
NZRIC, firstly let me say I appreciate the fact you have chosen a tactful and investigative approach as opposed to a dismissive one. In answer to your question: Improper Qigong is : 1. Collecting the Qi too fast 2. Not circulating it, 3. Circulating the Qi too fast 4. Stagnation or blockages not cleared when doing 1,2 ,3. 5. Eating too much Yin or Yang foods or drugs I think I have mentioned some of the above before in earlier postings : I'm not expert enuff to tell you how to do it properly because your Qigong style is prob diff from mine. But I do know the warnings given to me by my teachers. So I'm merely informing . It's up to you to find out from your respective teachers how to do it properly and to take their warnings seriously. Might not be a good idea to dismiss anything just because you don’t agree, it could be that he doesn’t’ have the time to explain it all to you…the reasons etc. In the system I practise, which is a moving Qigong system, improper posture or breathing rythm will NOT make it dangerous, just makes it ineffective. But apparently holding one's breath, practised in some Buddhist systems, have been known to cause nose bleeds in Shaolin monks ...and is not recommended ( Qi not moving when holding breath) .....by the Taoist. Blockages are caused when in doing mediatation, you do not circulate the Qi. In some systems, like the Falun, they DELIBERATELY drive up the Qi quickly and leave it in the head. About the time of day factor , I have to say I'm not knowledgeable about it, so I can only tell you what I know. In the system I practice, we have been advised that the "Best" times are at the changing Earth / Sun positons.... just after sunrise/ sunset / midnight / noon .....because at the changing, the cosmic energy / Qi is the strongest. This is consistent with Western Science, ie. in a Sine wave, at the 0, 180, 360 degree phase positions ( max change) , the velocity , therefore the energy is the highest. I'm also aware that some Qigong systems do place importance on doing different Qigong postures at diff times of day, that is probably relevant to that system. IMHO it's best not to mix systems, because each system is " complete" and will have built in safe guards tested in the course of time. If one mixes and matches , one might inadvertently miss out a safety feature....an this is where problems might develop. So if your teacher says to do this posture only before 9am , or that one after 3pm....maybe it's best to just obey. I do know that in Dim Mak, a related subject, time of day is of utmost importance. Pushing a specific pressure point is effective for only specific times of a day, in accordance to circadian body rhythms. This business about the Taoist sages having big heads due to the large amount of Qi collected is probably mythology......in the same vein as how some people have turned Taoism into a religion and worship the 8 Immortals ( Lu Dong Bin etc) I like to separate Taoist science from Taoist mythology. Or maybe it’s just to signify Sagely Wisdom. Hope this helps.
Hwardo, it is good that you too on your own , have heard about the dangers of Improper Qigong . I was beginning to sound like the pariah. Look, like I said, I'm no expert, I can only relay to you what I heard from my Taoist teacher. I believe in " Erring on the side of Caution" Best suggestion I can give you: 1. Investigate more , not just in the internet and books...I just gave you a tip off. 2. You learn less from people who " dismiss it " or " never heard of it" 3. Speak to as many Qigong / TCM authorities, especially ones who have lived in China....because there are more people practising Qigong ( proper and improper Qigong ) there so the pool of experience is bigger.
I wouldn’t trust an Asian doctor trained in Western Medicine if he couldn’t read / write English or an established Western language. Similarly, I wouldn’t trust a Westerner TCM doctor if he couldn’t read / write in Chinese or Japanese. A friend of mine who’s doing a PHD in Mathematics informs me in many Australian Universities, that it is a prerequisite for anyone studying advanced Math, to learn a 2nd European language, preferably French, German or Russian. Why ? I asked. Because the greatest works in Mathematics of the last 500 years were MOSTLY NOT in English. So an Advanced Math student, not wanting to lose anything in TRANSLATION would have to learn a language CLOSEST to the SOURCE. In TCM terms , since the C stands for Chinese, all the original works/ discoveries are recorded in Chinese. Anyone , Western or Asian in origin who professes to study TCM without having a working knowledge of Mandarin/ Japanese will be similarly limited in his understanding the finer points.
Soggy, TCM students in their first semester learn over 1200 Chinese Characters for Herbal remedies and medicines.... thats just the first semester. I'm not wasting anymore time on this...I disagree. Best, Syd
Only 1200 and you're an expert ? Dont you need at least 10-15,000 characters to be proficient? I did say " Working Knowledge of Chinese Writing and Speaking" Are we learning just conversational Mandarin to ask where the train station is, or are we trying to decipher intrictate Chinese scientific jargon here ? If you weren't so dismissive and "talked and pontificated" like an expert from the start, I would have been a lot kinder. That's the diff between you and Kat. Kat is VERY knowledgeble but is not dismissive or condescending. He wasn't just being nice, but Wise. My turn to say " You are copping out "
1200 is in the first semester...courses are 4 years! Quote me where I said I was an expert? As usual you can't. Do I have more expertise and experience than you? Do the people who inform me have expertise and are they professionals in their fields? YES! On both counts. Are they recognized and do they have direct contacts within the Chinese Martial Arts and TCM communitiesin China? YES! The Bachelor of TCM is not a Chinese language course and since we deal in an English environment and TCM has been well and truly translated into English speaking culture in both texts and practical application it is not necessary that you speak or even be fluent in Chinese to treat people with TCM. Now your just lashing out which is a bit of a shame. I completely disagree with everything you have stated about the mental health dangers of Qigong. I stated my background and my sources, you have stated nothing. Continuing under these circumstances where you bring nothing to the table is laughable. Not to mention the repeated playground comparisons to Kat. *L* I won't be drawn anymore...waffle on.
how can qi gong dangers be avoided? considering i know absolutly nothing i should stay quiet but i do know a couple of things most of which have been said dont do anything to fast try not to stagnate the "energy" some basic things 1 important one always keep the head suspended. choose easy qi gongs to start with for example 1 system i know teaches begginers external or hard qi gong first because of the feeling that is qi gong is not an easy thing to achieve so begginners are thought a muscular qi gong at the start gradually going into softer more difficult qi gong later on as it is about the feeling. but none of this info is new or proven for that matter so believe what you want.
See, I have heard (and again, completely unsubstantiated) the exact opposite-- that is, that hard, muscular gongs are more dangerous than soft, gentle ones. For all those interested, I picked up a very interesting book on the subject the other day-- "The Root of Chinese Qigong" by Yang Jwing Ming. I have found some of his books to be a little short on info in the past, but this one is chock full of interesting qigong theory, guidelines for practice, and potential deviations and the ways to watch out for them. After I have digested the book a little more, perhaps I'll summarize his main cautions-- although from first glance, they tend to seem far less dramatic than most of the stuff I have heard here and in other places. For me, that is good.
I have this book also and I would say that Dr Yang is the standard in terms of extreme caution of Qigong. In other words his cautions are aboutthe extreme of where things stand in terms of harm and thats all she wrote. Best you find it out for yourself Hwardo.
I agree. Experience always has been the best teacher. The most potent warning of all of them is to not expect to have deviations! Worrying about dangers in qigong will inevitably lead to poor qigong, methinks. Thanks for all your input, Syd. : ) Cheers, Bryan
