Pope States: Big Bang and Evolution Theories are real

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Hannibal, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    This is that same amazing loophole that the divine is exempt from judgement e.g. Wrath is a sin but divine wrath isn't. It's normally not okay to do your sister but it's okay when god says it is.

    Well god does it because he loves us and we're too mortal to understand why. It's the petty excuse of people who can't look past the idea that some desert tribes living in squalid conditions tried to come up with ways to govern themselves by uniting the stories of influential pagan beliefs and hat we in the modern era are able to look past that and see context and application in modern day (much like koryuu or historical martial art systems)

    Lemonsloth - I believe that anenecdote is better served as god landscaping and calculating the angles of the hill and then pushing the barrow without further influence.
    But saying that is true, it mean god has not effect on our lives and praying to him is pointless other than self comforting (asking for strength)
     
  2. Sampsi

    Sampsi Valued Member

    I'm not saying the Bible is right, it has been written by humans.

    The quote was to point out that the main source for the Christian God describes him as not just being all loving and benevolent. All descriptions about how God thinks or acts have been made by beings that don't understand him so are just as far off the mark as describing him as kind or hateful.
     
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Thor is at least upfront about being an ****...he doesn't claim mysterious, ineffable ways; he just quaffs a mead and caves your head in
     
  4. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    That we can agree on. That doesn't seem to be what loads of christians think though. :(
     
  5. Sampsi

    Sampsi Valued Member

    As a majority I hope we've all decided that the things you've mentioned are wrong but that is from our point of view, if we all fervently believed that if you sacrificed a child they would live for eternity in a grand state and they would be happier than here then I would have thought that there would be a consensus that child sacrifice was a good thing.

    I'm not saying that is the case but I am saying that something we all consider to be wrong and cruel could very well be considered charitable and kind.

    All I'm saying is from a believers point of view we know almost nothing about God and his ways so we can't judge them by our standards.


    Yes it is. But if a layman spoke to a law lord about some of the complex laws in the UK then it would result in a similar system of loopholes and things that don't really make a great deal of sense but seem perfectly normal to the judge.

    We're all the chap who knows nothing of the laws and God is the law lord trying to explain via an interpreter (religious writings and prophets etc) the laws.


    Many of the rules make perfect sense in a historical context, yes, and most of them are about furthering the existence of a group. Also there are many links to other previously held pagan beliefs. All of these things are true though personally I feel a connection and a link, not necessarily to what certain texts say, but to a divine being that I think has made some sort of contact throughout history and to myself and that the church is one of the things that has formed from that.
     
  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Well luckily there's a global moral zeitgeist that's on a quest to minimise the effect of localised superstitions, unproven claims, cultural baggage and other nonsense that means immoral acts can continue under the guise of "this is for the best".
    In order for child sacrifice to become the norm thankfully these days we'd need a lot more evidence and convincing than just some local custom, old book or geographically located belief system.
     
  7. Sampsi

    Sampsi Valued Member

    True, but say we had all that evidence then would that mean that those in the past that practiced child sacrifice were moral and kind and those that don't do it now would be seen as cruel?

    I think it is quite likely that we know a fair amount about child sacrifice and that is why I've made a decision to come down on a side (that I think it is wrong), whereas the only thing I am certain about God is that I don't really know anything about him so I can't judge him.
     
  8. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    But do you believe he exists?
    And that if you do what he wants you'll be rewarded?
     
  9. Sampsi

    Sampsi Valued Member

    I believe he exists from personal experience and that what he wants is for the best so I should do it.
     
  10. Rhythmkiller

    Rhythmkiller Animo Non Astutia

    I believe he exists, no idea what he wants.

    Baza
     
  11. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    I first read that and burst out laughing, but now you mention it, it is a lot like that isn't it? :eek:

    Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not going to argue the Catholic Church is a wonderful organisation or anything like that. I'm no friend of the Church and I doubt I ever will be. I could never be part of a religion that makes you feel guilty for being alive based on a deity that gives you enormous amounts of confusion as to the state of the world, tells you that you must believe in one particular option and sentences you to an eternity of torment it is responsible for if you don't follow it.

    Playing Devil's Advocate though, I think at some point we have to stop marring the Church for the actions of their predecessors (who aren't alive any more) and judge the current church on their current actions. Compared to their ghastly history (EDIT: And what they could be doing), they're not doing too badly IMO.

    But for me, criticising the Church for the actions of the past is the same as accusing all land owners and business owners of supporting slavery, workhouses and child labour (which we've all done in the past).

    Their politics are diabolical to be fair.

    That's true. But I'd still rather have a major world religion that will adapt somewhat to the times and accept scientific achievements and knowledge than a major world religion that flies in the face of it all.

    You're right, that anecdote would have been better like that and a lot more accurate too. And I never said it didn't have its' own problems. Like crapping all over the idea of being made in God's image as we know it :p

    Gotta love the Nordic deities. They aren't perfect, they aren't perfectly magical in every single way Mary Poppins kinda heroes. They're pretty straight forward in who they are and what they do.

    Thor's lifting the cat's paw story is still my favourite one of his though.

    #SupermanHipster :D

    It's understandable why though. Would you want to believe that the centre and reason of your existence is a homicidal, fickle, arrogant maniac with a par chant for genocide and slavery?
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014
  12. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    That's the awkward bit though, isn't it? How do you judge something without putting it in a context and a scope of perception we can understand, thus making said deity anthropomorphic in nature?

    Unfortunately, like it or lump it sooner or later you have to put human perception and values to it in order to understand it. Whether it holds up well or not is a different matter. So saying that us judging God isn't fair...isn't strictly true IMO.

    Fair enough.

    Question - how do you judge if an organisation is successful in its' purpose (not just popular or not)?
     
  13. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    If you don't know anything about him how do you know what he wants?
     
  14. ShadowHawk

    ShadowHawk Valued Member

    look up SATANS THRONE in the vatican, and tell me something fishy isnt going on
     
  15. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    Holy bat poop, that thing is amazing! I want one! I could lose years of my life painting that thing!

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Man that is ace. Looks like some wood-elf god. Now THAT I could get into. :)
     
  17. Sampsi

    Sampsi Valued Member

    That's a good point, I suppose looking at it's founding principals and seeing how well it matches with those today, in reference to an institution as old as the church at least.

    Effectively a best guess with sources like the bible and church scholars, and since I think he wants the best for us that usually tinges my opinion slightly. Many people have been very wrong about what God wants, hopefully I'm not one of them.
     
  18. ShadowHawk

    ShadowHawk Valued Member

    its supposed to be jesus rising out of hell.. but they call it a resurrection ... look at his head, almost looks like a serphent snake head in disguise, one half a human face other half dinosuar like face ... SATANS THRONE resides in the vatican
     
  19. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    good ol' bergoglio... you can always trust an argie to go and screw with the system :D

    in re: creation and all that jazz: if god created man in his image, to worship him, and god himself was created, but it's against the rules to have other gods other than yhwh, then who was god committing blasphemy against by creating an entire race of tiny gods?. is there some infinitely recursive cycle of meta-heresy governing existence, with deities endlessly rebelling against their creator deities in a bizzarre and perverse apotheotic adolescence? what will we in turn create when we attain godhead? will i ever be even more bored than i am now and write even stranger things? why pi? what lies hidden under mitch's mankini? can i go to the bathroom?
     
  20. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Lol there are stories in Hinduism (mainstream coagulated vedic) where the priests threaten the gods by telling them rhat they'll make people pray to another god.
    At least they acknowledge the power of priests to make the masses believe whatever they tell them.
     

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