Police shot in Dallas

I didn't say you personally did, but instead that it's a popular narrative right now. It is, and it's one that BLM is pushing hard, and Black nationalist groups like the Nation of Islam and the New Black Panther Party are pushing even harder. After all, BLM Vancouver didn't try to bar bankers or legislators from the Pride parade there; the one and only group they demanded be barred from that event were police officers. That's a clear example of scapegoating people in uniform for society's ills.

I agree with Lemonsloth that while the data on "Mapping Police Violence" may not be technically, literally inaccurate, it's often misleading or materially incomplete. I find the lumping in of accidental traffic deaths, clearly-justified shootings, and potentially-unjustified shootings (and casting all of these as the latter) particularly troubling. Hell, when someone is shot while attempting to take an officer's gun, it looks to me like that is treated as an unwarranted shooting of an unarmed person. Indeed, they expressly deny the possibility that ANY of those deaths are warranted shootings with their section "there is no excuse for police violence"...which is a downright silly assertion when you know what awful situations police sometimes find themselves in. I'm not saying that every single police shooting ever is justified, but the argument that no police shooting is ever justified is at least as silly.

 

"All Lives Matter" No one should be slain-murdered by intent

 

One of the things I've tried to concentrate on is 'what can be done?' through this whole thing and tried to stay away from 'which side is correct?' So things that can be done: 1) end the war on drugs, that thing never worked in the first place. 2) End private prisons and their collusion with legislators. 3) Stop using the police as a revenue collection service. 4) Make implicit bias training mandatory for all armed personnel. 5) Continue to investigate white nationalist movements. I don't think any of these things are controversial, but there's so much inertia behind their opposition that I retain my belief that BLM is both important and necessary, though yeah, there have been serious missteps.

Honestly, I don't see how any of this has to do with the lack of correlation between police killings and city crime rates - do you believe that there are more 'accidental' traffic deaths in rural areas such that there would be a tighter correlation between police killings and local crime rates? I think your objections are a matter of wanting the analysis to ask different questions than they were looking at…

 

I think you've misunderstood my line of reasoning and what I mean by 'blame'. Let me be absolutely clear: I do not think that the killing of any individual police officer will redress or correct any forms of institutional racism. I think that individuals within the police are overtly racist and implicitly racist - there's a lot of policemen and women and they carry with them authority and this authority marks the police for infiltration by white supremacists. Nevermind what you get when someone says 70% of black people look suspicious and deserve to be searched. By the same token, I believe that the racist force the criminal justice system exerts is a consequence of broader policies that are in no way under control of the individual police officers conducting traffic stops. These are still actions of individuals within a system, but if it's a panicky legislator who says we need to perform 'stop and frisk' actions within urban environments, well...

 

http://usuncut.com/news/unarmed-therapist-shot-by-police/

"Cell phone video footage has been released that shows the moments before an unarmed black therapist with his hands up was shot by North Miami police while attempting to care for his autistic patient, according to WSVN-TV.

Disabled caregiver Charles Kinsey was lying on his back with his hands in the air, attempting to talk to the officers who were aiming their weapons at them. The police had received reports of a man with a gun threatening suicide."

I mean… For god's sake!

Another source: http://www.local10.com/news/man-in-good-condition-after-being-shot-by-north-miami-police-officer

Apparently they shot him three times in the leg. So… y'know, glad he's not dead.

 

I use them ALL THE TIME. For everything ;D

 

https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/1111255742297882/ - After all the crap in the news lately, this genuinely made me smile. We need more like *this*, not what we've been seeing.

 

You're right, I did. My apologies for that. Thank you for clarifying your point.

 

This is part of the long term solution - the police have to become closer to the communities they patrol. It thins out the 'them and us' narrative.

Short term, there needs to be a lot more training.

 

Yes, but respect is a two-way street. And after the rising tide of police assassinations, respect needs to be mutual for constructive dialogue to result. BLM needs to quit intentionally driving a wedge between police and the communities they patrol (BLM Vancouver being the most obvious incident, trying to ban police from supporting the Pride parade that they've supported for over a decade) and encouraging continued violence against men and women in uniform with no justice, no peace chants and the like, which push people toward supporting militant Black nationalist groups instead of engaging in healthy bilateral dialogue.

It would be wrong to judge the entire African-American community by he violent element present in the 0.1% who are Bloods and Crips, even though that's all you see coverage of on FoxNews each night. But conversely, it would be wrong to judge the entire LEO community based upon the violent and corrupt 0.1% that you see covered on MSNBC each night. Most African-Americans and most LEOs just want safe, peaceful communities, and the more mutual collaboration there is, the better.

 

I don't think it's realistic to believe that a mob of random people, united only in their dislike of black killings, subject to no training or centralized authority, is going to somehow discipline their members especially as more and more police shootings occur. This Florida one certainly won't help matters.



Seems like protestors aren't being treated all that respectfully.

Unlike the Crips, police are in general not likely to get charged for their missteps and there actually is a training and selection process we can use to make these killings more unlikely. Changes should have been implemented years ago, we shouldn't drag our feet based on protestors being rude.

 

Here's the thing - BLM activists know that not all police officers are bad - they know that the overwhelming majority are just doing their job - you can see this in the interactions between BLM protesters and the police during the protests. The issue is, when the members of that 0.1% of bad officers are identified, there are no repercussions for them. Many are not even charged and of the very few prosecutions, even fewer result in convictions, often because the prosecutor doesn't actually want to win, in case it affects police cooperation on future cases.

If members of your community were being killed by the police without reason, and justice was never being done, you might feel moved to protest too.

 

I don't know ... I could probably make up a list ...

 

I'm not saying every protester needs to be polite; I'm saying that you can't make a BLM chapter come to the table unless they want to, and some chapters (such as BLM Vancover and BLM Toronto) have made very clear they don't want to.

I'm certainly not saying every single use of force to arrest someone at a BLM rally is justified, but oftentimes the way these arrests are framed (particularly by partisan "news" organizations like "US Uncut") are incomplete and misleading.

When it comes to criminal proceedings against officers for alleged misconduct, officers deserve a presumption of innocence until proven guilty like any other criminal defendant, and many times the actual evidence uncovered doesn't match the initial media narrative. The classic example is Ofc. Darren Wilson, where uncontrovertible physical evidence uncovered in the US DOJ investigation was completely at odds with the "hands up don't shoot" popular narrative that ruled the media for months and destroyed his career and reputation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...n-learned-from-the-shooting-of-michael-brown/

 

But the movement is inaccurate because most black slayings are not done by police

If one house is on fire, putting it out is the first priority...but investigation on why it caught on fire, especially by "intent" is another issue

Many houses get on fire throughout other places...if there is a "willful intent" (arson) but people just focus on blaze, prevention should be the key to minimize

In other words, do not completely focus on the fire as to the why

But, although I am not saying that every officer out there who shoot people are justified, I look upon it as police are trained not to go out with the "intent" to mindlessly shoot someone. As told to me by several police, if people would only comply, a shooting will be minimized. In addition, if a officer has is gun drawn on someone, then they (officer) are in fear or feel the situation became life-threatening. A officer cannot read minds or the intention of a suspect. Rather the suspect is holding a toy gun, toy train, etc., holding or reaching for a object and not complying becomes the key issue

Here's a thought: If many recent police shootings have been unjustified, why then has the FBI task force investigations fail to prosecute police in those cases? Why is it that "officer to black shootings" (which is the lower percentage) take up the news more than the overall?

ALSO-in any police shootings, the officer did not go forth with the mindset intent to murder someone like the recent "cop killers"

ALL Lives Matters

 

I'm one of the bigger critics of BLM, but even I'll point out at this point that if your police unions & groups are anything like the UK ones, then there's a good chance you have some internal corruption and "taking care of your own" going on here. Couple that with the fact that many cases often to come down to a "he said/she said" scenario and you might not necessarily have the best environment for impartial & effective self-policing going on. Not saying this it the majority of situations or anything like that, but it is a factor you have to consider.

Someone might want to correct me if I'm wrong with that one, but I'm suggesting it is a possibility all the same.

 

You can tell so much about a person from just one three word sentence.

 

I agree with "the taking care of your own", but ever since Obama has been in office, he assigns a FBI task force to investigate which seems to not prosecute (due to lack of incriminating evidence)

Now, I want to make it clear, as a hippy in the 60's and hanging out with black friends throughout, I have witnessed police harassment and brutality.

But going off recent data from officers I know, harassment and brutality has been declining

Make America Great

 

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