Someone had asked him. "Why not just test it in cage/competition... etc etc" And he said that. Why does it "HAVE" to be tested in a real life situation. Shouldn't it work in the cage too?
In a ring I would not be allowed to go for his eyes strike his throat/groin or try to break his arm. And I have no doubt that any good ring fighter would cast these RULES aside in a street fight too.
Thing is Kuroshinobi this is yet another instance of you trying to twist things a bit just so you have something to argue against. You've also yet again shown where your lack in understanding of certain areas. If you appreciated where Koyo is coming from, due to his background etc, then you would "get" what he was on about.
if you can't strike him with a fist... what makes you think you can strike them in the eyes or throat? And if you cannot even get to the point where you're about to submit them? How are you going to break their arm, unless you strike them hard enough. And Frank Shamrock had his ulna broken in his match with Cung Le. So what I'm seeing is.... That in order to do those things you're talking about. You would already be able to do enough to win the fight without having to do those things to incapacitate the fighter. The rules are just there to protect the person getting beaten. 12-6 o clock elbows aren't allowed.... But in order to perform those elbows you have to control them. And at that point you'd already be winning the fight.
< This whole thing was a gigantic Argumentum Ad hominem/Appeal to Authority fallacy attempt. Argument from authority or appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, where it is argued that a statement is correct because the statement is made by a person or source that is commonly regarded as authoritative. The most general structure of this argument is: Source A says that p. Source A is authoritative. Therefore, p is true. An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument toward the person" or "argument against the person") is an argument which links the validity of a premise to an irrelevant characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.
Every fight has a beginning a middle and an end. Not necessarily in that order. I leave you to ponder that one. But every good street fighter shall know what it means. Plus submisions are not part of a street fight. One walks away one does'nt.And neither is enobled by the incedent. Below a Glasgow "street fight"..no ref..no kits..no rules.That is an open razor the yob is weilding. He had no martial arts training but was far more dangerous than most martial artists.
Koyo you are wasting your breath mate. This guy has no idea of context, to him everything is the same and everything should apply across the board. He sees no need to alter game plan from one arena to another.
Kuroshinobi, As all of us here are clueless compared to you I recomend you go read some work by the likes of Geoff Thompson and Rory Miller but you probably won't listen to that anyway.
That's all fine and dandy. But I'm not saying a cage fight is the same as a real fight, nor am I saying that you can get impaled in a cage fight like you can in a real fight. It just seems to me that if the art was effective.... It should work in a cage(atleast). I mean how are you going to supposedly beat that guy up with a weapon, yet not be able to beat people who are only slinging fist and feet at you?
Ok, so: a mod walks in to a bar. He sits at the bar. He sees someone intentionally changing words and arguments, in an attempt to intentionally rile people and have an argument for no reason relevent to the thread. He turns to the barman and says: 'That's trolling'. Both the barman and mod agree that it should stop. Now.
I see what you mean. Horror story for you. there was a BIG guy called Flab a bear of a man. He was a collector for money lenders in Possilpark where I worked. One day I was passing his car when he screamed at me for help. His leg had been pinned to his car seat with a six inch nail!!! His head was bleading badly so I can only surmise he had been ambushed. Different world out there.
To Black Ninja (kuroshinobi), You seem to think that when we say the cage is different from the street that all we mean is dirty tricks like eye gouging, nut cracking, and biting. For someone with a name that pertains to some of the deadliest fighters in history, you don't seem to appreciate the dynamics of non sport fighting. Some responses to a shoot to the waist aiming for a double leg takedown: hammer fist the back of the head elbowing the spine twisting his head pulling his hair digging your fingers under his jawbone all of which are fouls in the cage Responses on the ground: stick your thumb in his mouth and pull grab the trachea and crush punch the trachea (big target) elbow the side of the head head butt twist grab the middle finger and break it (or any finger for that matter) again all fouls that's just the technique aspect. The cage, you can't hold on to it for support, you can't throw people over it, you slam the cage and it bounces. You have open space, and a good place for footwork. One one one. An alley, you can hold on to railings, you can throw people over fences and into dumpsters, you slam someone on the wall face first there's no friendly bounce. It can be cramped with obstacles available improvisational weapons and uneven or sometimes slick flooring. Possibility of multiple and hidden multiple opponents. so many fudge factors. One can be a flabby or skinny and very experienced veteran street fighter and suck in the cage. Or be a very good cage guy but get killed in the street.
Not exactly... What I'm saying is... That if you can't survive a cage fight. Just think of what would happen to you in real life where there aren't rules to protect you. Some of those of what you listed aren't illegal moves besides the strikes to the back of the head. And honestly all that was allowed in old days... But it still never worked. Because none of it's enough to make an uncompliant (trained person) pumped on adrenaline to stop. And if you don't sprawl his double leg... You're gonna go down with the quickness very hard. These rules are in place to save the fighter who is losing. If you don't have control on the ground... Then all these things would be happening to you. And once again all these were allowed in early MMA days. Still never worked.. Never turned a fight around to the point where the guy who was controlling the ground got completely annihilated to where he lost control or even came close to losing the fight. Most of those things your'e talking about won't even be effective on the ground... Because they keep their head low and close to your body normally with an elbow crushing your own trachea. And noses and fingers get broken in fights. (Frank Shamrocks arm got broken in the fight with Cung Le... And he still fought a whole round with it). There have been numerous people who have been knocked out by slams in the cage... It's a lot harder than you think it is. It's just that the body can take a lot more pain than you're taught. Watch a lot of rampages fights. Specifically the fight between Rampage and Arona. That's if you're controlling the fight. Sure a very good cage fighter can be killed in the street... Not saying they can't. It most likely won't be due to their hand to hand combat skills are lacking. Probably because they were 1)Caught off guard 2)Weapon involved
I think i'm on topic.... Since the thread post was originally this "i'm posting because i saw posted video of bas rutten. bas was taking a question, a viewer wrote in to "inside mma", and i'm paraphrasing, but the question was "aikido looks effective, but why don't more mma guys use it?". you can check the video out for yourselves on youtube. bas' response was basically aikido is not effective because he saw some guy somewhere catch a fist out of mid-air (in the dojo) and do a technique. " < He was talking about Aikido's effectiveness in MMA
It takes a different set of skills to fight for your life than it does for competition. If you've never done it, you're never going to understand it. I've done both and hand to hand skill is rarely the deciding factor in a street fight. Some wise old guy that I know once explained it perfectly. Speed, aggression and surprise. If you're squaring up to people on the street, you're in the wrong game and you're gonna get taken out quickly and there is nothing like a nice facial scar to educate the unwary. Me, I'm still pretty cos I never fought a fair fight in my life. The Bear.
