hello everyone. i'm posting because i saw posted video of bas rutten. bas was taking a question, a viewer wrote in to "inside mma", and i'm paraphrasing, but the question was "aikido looks effective, but why don't more mma guys use it?". you can check the video out for yourselves on youtube. bas' response was basically aikido is not effective because he saw some guy somewhere catch a fist out of mid-air (in the dojo) and do a technique. hey, i respect bas as a pretty tough guy that could win matches in the ring (with ring rules) and can probably defend himself very, very well. but i think this is a case of a guy that clearly doesn't get what aikido is about. personally, i was thinking "well duh, who's going to ever catch a flying fist out of mid-air then do kotegaeshi on it." people forget, or don't realize, atemi...soften the opponent up if you can't escape...kuzushi, unbalance...use your center...keep moving. i don't think that all aikido people all get it either. had a conversation with somebody (1st kyu) when i first started in aikido and he said something to the effect that aikido doesn't have kicking in it. thought that was a strange comment. then yokota sensei from hombu comes in for a seminar then is performing a technique, gets around uke and says "well you can always just kick them in the ribs when you're here"..<translated, of course> i'm not an expert, i've only been doing aikido for three months now. but i feel like this stuff is self-evident. where's the disconnect? is it because of mma on tv that people think that aikido is not useful or not "tough enough"? why do even aikidoka impose limits on their aikido?
Bas Rutten isn't just "some MMA guy." He does have traditional roots, with a godan in Kyokushin and a nidan (or whatever it is in Korean) in Tae Kwon Do. He's probably had some experience with it or seen it, didn't like it, and moved on. Not every art is for everyone. And you're entitled to your opinion on it, whether others agree with you or not.
absolutely kuma. we are all entitled to our opinion and not all arts are for everyone. also...bas is hilarious. i love watching that show just because of him.
Ive seen that interview and he was quite right to come out with such a statement after seeing such bull in a so called aikido club. ONE of the biggest problems in Aikido as Koyo has so kindly reminded us of many times is the destruction and dilution of the MARTIAL ART OF AIKIDO. There is nothing to learn form kuzushi or any other aiki principle in catching a punch in front of you. Youtube is full of it. If you practice something that is admitted to be useless then its USELESS, get rid of it. This is one of the reasons i never say i teach or practice AIKIDO, I always say Traditional Aikido as Modern Aikido from what i can see is not worth talking about as a Martial art. I respect the Aikido guys who admit there style is not a martial art but a health system at least there honest.
dentoi... thanks for the comment. i feel that i'm pretty lucky to have found the aikido club i'm at. the teachers (and dan level students) are very adept, training is severe if you want it to be, and there is no faking it. we also do aikido weapons training. i went for a test session at another aikido club in the city i'm at, and the instructor sat there for what seemed like an eternity trying to get his wrist just right in such a fashion as get the ki energy flowing when uke was grabbing it. i was like "wtf is this?"
If I have the time to "catch his punch" I use that time to hit him. If the art is NOT effective..it is NOT aikido.
Giovani The reason some place limitations on their "aikido" is that they believe their own fantasy..after fifty years cross training I have NEVER met anyone who could "lead my ki." Someone grabs your right wrist..you hit them with your left fist...simple. DO NOT CHANGE THE ART..LET THE ART CHANGE YOU. The wtf!! aspect. maybe I am getting old BUT..I ask them wtf!!! NEVER had a decent answer.
yep feeling good. What gets me with those mystics is that any serious student shall look at them and decide not to train in aikido. The damage those ego maniacs have done to aikido is terrible.
My understanding is that Ueshiba and students proved themselves and that's why Aikido was respected. I think it's unreasonable to expect people in general, accomplished fighters in particular, to have any respect for our art when we say,"You must investigate us." Could you imagine a salesman calling you and claiming he has a great product and then he says,"Well, I'm not going to prove it. You just have to believe it?" I love what I believe Aikido to be. However, I don't expect others to have faith in what they see as nonsense. That would be contrary to the Way. Self-realization is, literally, realizing your self. Who are you? If you're a person that thinks Aiki-dancing is laughable, I don't resent it... But I'm happy to spar with you.
Just to play the devil's advocate: Nothing against you, Giovanni, but what makes you think you "get it"? You admit you've only trained three months yourself and make reference to the opinion of a guy who's got over 30 years of experience in the MA. Do you "get it" because you truly "get it", or do you just "get it" because you WANT to "get it", i.e. you want to believe what your instructors tell you?
kuma: i think the things i posted about are self evident. one, i'm not going to impose limits on my aikido. two, i think aikido is a combat art that can be very, very effective. i mentioned during my post that i am a beginner at aikido, yes. but i've been doing martial arts for a bit, total of about 7 years--hapkido and judo. again, that's not very long either. what i hope you're not picking up from my post is any type of arrogance. i sincerely hope to not convey anything like that. i don't study martial arts to fight. about the only thing an opponent will see of me is my back side as i'm running away, lol. all i'm hoping to do is to learn and to better myself. i made a choice to stop doing hapkido after many years and to start something else (aikido) all the way at the bottom of the ladder. and let me tell you, it's been an eye opening experience. cheers.
oh about bas.... i respect bas very much. just on what i know about him as a person and what i've seen of him and know of him as a martial artist. but with all due respect to bas, i disagree with his assessment of aikido. i don't disagree with his assessment of the aikido he happened to see that caused him to have a negative reaction. but to say aikido isn't effective? i strongly disagree; my opinion of course.
Considering your goals, I think you've got nothing to worry about then. And I was merely playing the devil's advocate, not attacking you in any way. I hope you realize that as well.
I thought you are talking about the combat effectness of the Aikido system. The path for "health" or "self awareness" is different from the path for "combat". For health, you don't need to sharp your weapon, for combat you do. For "self awareness", you don't even need a healthy body. Few questions? - Why Aikido Association will kick someone out of the association if that person competed in Karate tournament? - Are there any Aikido tournament that you can go and compete? - Why Aikido throws donot use leg but use hands only? - Are there any "you attack first" than "your opponent always attack first"? - Are there any body condition training, equipment training? - Are there any kick, punch, elbow, and knee training? - Are there any hip throw, bowing throw, leg lift, leg block, embrace throw, firemen's carry throw, ...? In other words, do you think you will have a complete set of tools in your toolbox by training only one style only?
(1) O uchi gari leg sweep to augment arm lock. (2) it is a self defence art (3) Pre-emptive strike to the face to expose the ribs to a strike (4) MANY aikidoka crosstrain in other competative arts. (5) Getting thrown pinned and beasted about conditions the body as does circuit training. What many people do not get is that serious aikidoka ask the same questions and take action to answer them. See martial arts of aikido threads or koyo's book thread.
Many years ago, an Aikido friend of mine (2nd degree black belt I believe) came to visit me. It so happened that there was a Karate tournament in town. I grabbed him and another Karate friend to compete in that tournament. Few days later, the Aikido Association kicked my friend out because "he competed in tournament" which was against the association rule back then (I don't know the rule has been changed or not since then). He spent many years cross trained other MA styles and became a very successful fighter after that.
ALL of the original aikido shihan were crosstrainers.Mainly judo and kendo (both competative arts) Politics and personalities destroy martial arts. There should be LESS associations and MORE association.The aikido association you mentioned simply lost a good student.
Koyo: I deleted the year (1973) information for that Karate event just don't want people to know how old I am. I just found out that you are 8 years older than me. It's nice to see some old timer on this forum. John
