Pathwalker Guild

I know but there is usually a good reason for that. The type of arts I study have used a similar approach but I know why.

Thank you for that but it is your opinion and only really tells us what you feel are the positive aspects of such an approach.

This doesn't give the reasons for the closed door mentality.

Apart from the last paragraph this again doesn't tell us much about the reasoning behind the secrey it's mostly justifying the rest of your system.

I assume you have a head or group of seniors who dictate policy etc what reasons to they give for the secrecy involved in the organisation?

Understood but this still doesn't tell us much about the reasons for the holding back of info.

I'm interested in the ideological elements specific to your org.

 

Probably for the same reasons I'm sure: either because they feel they have an advantage over rivals/enemies that they do not want compromised, or repression from a ruling class/invading force/colonial power.

I cannot tell you exactly why it was originally taught in secret. I wasn't there.

I believe the official line has already been stated in this thread by the member's secretary. I don't think there's anything I can add to that, except that I don't have a problem with it, and I would not change it.

 

Dancing at Le Moulin Rouge?

 

What's the history of Marbo?

The Bear.

 

This is about as much as I know regarding the history.

The man who founded, and has taught since the 70s, "Marbo" (which apparently came about from Kung Fu practitioners noting that it was, from their perspective, all performed from the "mabo" stance, ie. a natural stance) turned what he had learnt into a form that could be taught in public classes, and in English.

Again, as I have said, I have stumbled upon too much anecdotal eveidence myself to think this is mere coincidence and he made it all up. There is certainly more than a lifetime's work in the system, and there are many clues to it being a (or at least based on) pre-industrial culture's system, like an instructor being able to know exactly how many reps have been performed of a technique without having to be able to count, timing excercises without a watch, and many more.

If the founder did make it all up himself, well... I can only say he hides his genius well!

As for the founder's provenence, history and experience, it is not my place to give out information on others. I can only speak of my own experience, which is that I consider him to posses awe-inspiring understanding and application of fighting techniques, his survival and bushcraft skills are also very impressive (I've seen him light fires in conditions that would be hard even if you had a flamethrower!) and for as long as I, or anyone else, have known him he has dedicated his life to passing those techniques on to others.

 

No actually I can't. high kicks leave you vulnerable and open to attack. Especially if the thinking behind your training is there will be multiple attackers.

There are far better ways of improving flexibility and muscle strength than trying to do high kicks in the snow.

 

I can count timing without a watch. As can most people actually. Keeping time is a natural skill that is essential to everything humans do. I don't see how this indicates it's a pre-industrial system.

This sort of nonsense statement is indicative as to why people are criticising Marbo so heavily. It seems this sort of nonsense isn't just part of the website propaganda, it's ingrained in the culture of the organisation. Which I would certainly consider a problem.

 

Then enlighten me, what dynamic stretches are better for training kicks than actually doing kicks themselves? I am always open to learning.

And I don't think the term "trying" is appropriate, "doing" is.

 

How is this nonsense?

I don't understand your use of the phrase "count timing". I'm not talking about counting anything, that was my point.

Could you describe what kind of culture you feel is engrained?

 

What? How much stretching do you really need for low kicks?

 

If you don't understand my use of the phrase then you clearly don't understand your own use of the phrase. So please be the one to enlighten us. Just what are you talking about here? What does this have to do with a pre-industrial culture? So far as i can make out, it's nonsense.

 

Punctuation, my dear boy.

How to count without knowing numbers.

How to make sure an exercise lasts the same amount of time without time-keeping technology.

I'm in no way saying this is proof of historical usage, just two of many indications that it probably is, in my eyes, and to the best of my knowledge.

As I have stressed several times in this thread, I do not expect this to convince anyone, I am merely adding my experience and opinion to the thread.

I would appreciate it if you could answer my question as to what type of culture you feel is ingrained in our organisation.

 

It depends how fast you want to do them. I already stated my case as to resistance of muscles, tendons and fasciae and ranges of flexibility. There is also the matter of stabilizer muscles being used in extremis improving their use within more modest range.

If you do not agree, then you have your position and I have mine. I don't what else we could say to continue a constructive discussion on the subject.

 

Generally speaking kicking would be part of your technical work out, this would be separate to a specific flexibility workout and would be preceded by a warm up of dynamic stretches such as leg raises etc.

With kicking you are working on a specific application of a technique and not necessarily an attribute, the attribute would be needed to put the technique into practice.

Also you have to consider that with dynamic stretches you will be gradually increasing reach and speed of movement across the reps and sets, generally I would think that is better than just going fully wack into the movement, unless you're Mr Stretchy.

You're training the nervous system as much as anything else, trying to jump straight in will probably result in it objecting to the activity.

 

Enough that you don't screw your muscles etc up when you try them.

It'll depend on how they are applied, the targets, range etc.

 

this!

 

Thanks for the constructive post.

I think I should stress that our training is not focused on kicking in the same way that, say TKD is. We do not advise our students to kick people in the head if they are attacked.

That said, after stretching, incrementally increasing the height/speed of kicks, within comfortable limits for the practitioner, seems like the ideal way to increase flexibility if kicking ability is your aim. I would not start a session by telling my students to perform full speed & power head-height kicks. I do not advocate forced-stretching. Flexibility must be balanced with strength for healthy and effective limbs (as well as the spine), and in my experience the best way to attain that is through gradual, gentle increases in flexibility through repetitious practice of the techniques themselves.

 

You may want to look at the Health & Fitness forum here or read some of Tom Kurz's work.

 

Thanks, I will. Looking at his blog now.

This may not go down well here, but I do have a circle of physiotherapists to draw wisdom and knowledge from (with well over a century of experience between them), and they have made me rather suspicious of the muscular-skeletal canon of sports science. When I ask them about things I have read or heard from sports-scientists, or gym culture, to do with the mechanics of the muscular system, I am frequently told that the models they are working from are a gross simplification leading to error of theory. Though I presume someone at Tom Kurz's professional level would be better informed.

The first bit of Tom Kurz's blog talks about performing side-splits, this is not something I would ever advocate, unless someone really wanted to get into gymnastics.

Bear in mind this whole part of the discussion came about because of a photo of a woman performing a sidekick to just above waist height. I can't do the splits, nor would I want to, I don't think it would be healthy for me. But then, I'm not Mr. Stretchy.

The only time my students injure themselves is when they're playing sport.

 

Got distracted by Tom Kurz's self-defence posts and videos. I like that he has pictures from Talhoffer's Fechtbuch in the video. It's a book worth studying.

I listened to the interview on his "Secrets of Stretching" page, he certainly knows what he is talking about: the most effective way to train for flexibility and strength in what you are doing is to do whatever it is you are doing with increasing range of motion. Which I completely agree with.

I also like his thread posts on his forum I've read, on slow practice, breathing and other subjects.