Pathwalker Guild

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Saturnine138, Jan 4, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Thankyou for the offer, Simon.

    I was considering attending when I saw the thread about it.

    I will give the invitation to take a class serious consideration and let you know within the next few days.

    Thanks again.
  2. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Not really. I don't see any reason why the techniques would not work for any skeletal shape, and there have been people of sub-saharan African descent who have done the training (as well as North Africa, but people of Arabic and Berber descent have the same Skeletal structure as Europeans). People from the near-East too (India, Pakistan), but they also have the same skeletal shape as Europeans.

    I have read material by Oriental MA instructors who talk of making small adjustments to technique for different ethnic skeletal shapes. Perhaps he was referring to something similar, but I do not know. I am happy to train any ethnic group, and indeed it is part of our ethos never to discriminate against any race or creed.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  4. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    I was not suggesting you were.

    I have seen similar remarks by "modernisers" before, which kinda seemed to mean that they could not do a technique properly but blamed the technique (age/origin etc) instead of learning it properly.

    Also I sometimes get the sense it means "lacking in flexibility" (usually of the hips etc).

    So you see I was not querying any race issues. Never even crossed my mind. I can see how it could have looked that way though. Ooopsy.
  5. Ex Pathwalker

    Ex Pathwalker Valued Member

    marbo pathwalker guild

    I was joking about the reference to robes yes, but not the existence of the group. The main instructor made them out to be a force to be reckoned with who'd done some extreme martial arts training. I think that Yahoo Dave guy was spooked by something or someone when he left because he told people to steer clear of the marbo lot. You wouldn't publish that on a website if you weren't serious about having an injury IMO.
  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    No, I didn't think you were, don't worry :) . But by this point in the thread I just want to cover all bases and add any caveats I can to stop anyone getting the wrong idea, that's all.

    As for adapting techniques, to my mind the biggest difference is not about ethnicity, but about height and therefore length of the spine. It can take longer to instill the supporting strength necessary to perform some techniques in an economic manner if you have a long spine, especially if you are skinny and have been used to keeping your back in bad posture, as many tall people are prone to. There could possibly have been some cultural differences in posture and the use of limb-strength, as opposed to core strength, in the past between the Orient and the Occident, but from what I see, those differences are becoming smaller as Western culture pervades Japan in particular, and I include diet in those cultural changes. But I must say, that this is speculation and I am no expert in Oriental culture.

    Thanks for your questions.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    The remarks I spoke of were from Japanese instructors, teaching in Japan. Not modernisers.

    I'm afraid I couldn't give you a reference though, I can't remember exactly where I read that.
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That is an interesting point.

    People who often kneel, or sit cross-legged on the floor, as well as those who squat, rather than sit, to go to the toilet, will have greater flexibility in their hips on the whole.

    The physios I have spoken to notice a marked lack of hip problems in old age, as compared to Westerners, in those cultures that squat to use the toilet. I don't know if there have been any studies done, but it has definite logic to it.
  9. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Yes in my experience people lacking flexibility find some JMA's awkward and complain they don't work and are unrealistic.

    When it's simply them.
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    All martial artists, regardless of where their art comes from, who I consider good at what they do, display the same postural habits. Mainly using the hips and knees to move their body, rather than bending the spine, and mostly keeping a straight, but not arched, spine, regadless of the angle it has to the floor. Moving the body in this way allows for greater use of core muscles, and so benefits both balance (if standing) and strength. You are right, in the sense that if people find this difficult they should work on correcting that, rather than blaming the technique. But I feel that it is an instructor's job to help them in developing that, not to berate them for being unable to do it.
  11. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Yup. I wasn't talking about a teacher watching students though. Was talking about people creating their own "arts".
  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Ah, ok yeah. If the person starting a school has not mastered basic movement, there is not much hope for their students, agreed.
  13. MemberSec

    MemberSec Banned Banned

    Marbo / Pathwalker

    Apologies to the Moderator.
    The response we’ve had over this thread requires a further reply.

    I am the Members Secretary of the Pathwalker Guild. I am not the “main man“ (I find that term immensely insulting to the members who dedicate so much of their time and effort to the PG). I do not run my answers past “him” prior to submission.

    The official response from The Pathwalker Guild and the Marbo School of Martial Arts:
    We are a private not-for-profit Members only organisation.
    We are not a cult.
    We have no religious affiliation
    We have no political affiliation.
    We have no national affiliation.
    We are supremely indifferent to age, gender, sexuality, skin colour and hair styles.

    We train the good guys to walk their path with honour.

    Re Our History - The Archivist has evidence of our history. We do not want to share it with the rest of the world. We are a private Members only organisation.
    NB If a member isn’t interested we wont waste their time telling them! Free Path!

    David H - “The man who founded, and has taught since the 70s... turned what he had learnt into a form that could be taught in public classes, and in English”

    The person David is discussing adapted the original teaching method to better suit larger numbers of participants and multiple grades within a class situation. The original teaching method, One on Four, is still used as a preferred teaching means by many of our Instructors.

    Re Tournament / Reveal techniques etc -
    The protocols are clear - do not reveal Marbo technical methods to none members - The point of our training is defence - what is point of teaching the predator how you fight, it neutralises the advantage.

    David H “I'll tell you something: there is one warranted instructor on that list who left in the past decade. That is a fact. But, as A Pathwalker pointed out, they only stopped actively training, and is still considered a warranted instructor“.
    The Archivist has confirmed this reply is correct.
    The other individuals referred to did not complete the Instructor training / gain their Instructors Warrant.

    “why people were left in the middle of nowhere on a training 'do' etc.” No one has ever been abandoned. Transport to and from training do’s has been agreed before the event, with back ups in place depending on the type of training event tacking place.

    I know the Instructor “main man” some of you are personally attacking on this site. He gave you so much, and you, in your spitefulness respond with this. How dare you! I have witnessed the magic that man can create. I have witnessed that man humbled by an 11 year old girl, as she achieved her full colours. I have heard member after member thanking that man for the training, after it’s been instrumental in saving their life. Yes he is a flawed human. But he is a flawless Instructor.

    To quote David H - “…and for as long as I, or anyone else, have known him he has dedicated his life to passing those techniques on to others“.

    Thank you for your time MAP. Thank you for providing a forum that supports free speech. I hope you can understand why several of us have participated in this forum. You may not believe what we say or like how we say it, but it is our truth and our organisation, and we are honour bound to defend it.

    To those who have been respectful and curious - we wish you Safe Path.

    Pathwalker Guild Members Secretary.
  14. Nojon

    Nojon Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein

    This whole thread is like a certain Frank Herbert novel. I mean that in the most respectful way possible.
  15. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Respected response. Many thanks.

    Purely out of interest though could you in anyway expand upon the arts history and/or lineage. It's not important though but as I have an interest in the different recording/transmission methods of eastern and western arts (ie western arts seem to be passed on in a different way and often not preserved for preservations sake alone - im thinking Japanese kata of tea, shodo, la la).

    If you only feel comfortable speaking by pm them I totally respect that too.

    Would be massively interested in how the arts have been preserved and how. Always thought that it couldn't be just the oriental(and similar) arts.

    BTW the whole racial thing was my fault. I only meant it in regards to technique as me mentioned on that marbo site. I was NOT accusing your art or club of being racist.

    Any of you near London?
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2012
  16. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    Oh brother...

    So, if you're organization is so flawless, and perfect then why do so many allegations and accusations exist surrounding it and its practices from folks, who clearly, have had privy to its workings?

    I've stayed largely neutral here, and in some regard have tried to spare you further degradation but you almost seem to WELCOME it. And that last bit about the "how dare you" melodrama hooked me.

    1) We are a private Members only organisation. - Why? Because you know your methods wont stand scrutiny? Seems to be. Truth be told, if you truly were the sound and righteous organization you claim to be you would have at least confided in the Moderators or Admin here in private so that they could at least back you. But you haven't. Defiance is the cloak of the guilty and duplicitous. Your defiance to unveil anything more than canned, measured answers does more to ruin your credibility than any question posed here at MAP.

    If your organization were half of what you claim, folks would be spouting about it from the roof tops. The first rule of fightclub is dont talk about fightclub and its also the biggest crock of dung I've ever heard.

    2) Re Tournament / Reveal techniques etc -
    The protocols are clear - do not reveal Marbo technical methods to none members - The point of our training is defence - what is point of teaching the predator how you fight, it neutralises the advantage
    . - ANOTHER crock of dung. So if you dont show anything to anyone what are potential members exposed to that makes them want to join or are they just so weak minded that they'll buy anything you tell them without seeing it first? Seems to me you HAVE to show "non-members" SOMETHING in order to get them to want to join. To do differently would be the same as buying a car with out a test drive - which we all agree is simply stupid. So how does that work then? Either you DO show them some sample of the art or you con them into buying sight unseen? If you DO show them some sample then your entire rule is moot. If you don't, then you're as crooked an organization as any I've seen.

    AS for your "what is the point in teaching the predator-blah, blah, blah... if you're as well versed in tactics and technique as you claim them there is no way anyone can be "taught" enough to understand your every move. Even TKD players, who study the SAME ART, can catch each other off guard and defeat an opponent. It's not a stale mate which is what you allude to by even hinting at "teaching the predator how you fight". Either you're afraid that the whole bogus deal will be blown by some 19 year old MMA fighter or you have enough technique to make that a non-issue. Which is it? Surely theres more to MARBO than can be figured out by an observer in a single bout? Surely your super secret decoder rings can help you decipher an opponents attack before he launches it and defeat him using merely a handful of basic techniques so I don't see the problem.

    I held my tongue til now out of respect but you just HAD to tug at me.

    I love the "but it is our truth and our organisation, and we are honour bound to defend it." Total crap. There is but ONE truth - not yours and ours, one Singular, all binding truth. And THAT must be defended.

    For an organization that professes so strongly NOT to be a cult you sure remind me alot of David Koresh and HIS version of the truth. And I fear, like him, yours is just as big a pile of nothing. The truth is that any man anywhere whos claims are valid can, and will, prove it, in some way. What is training if its never tested? What is training if its only tested on likewise trained individuals? Sure, you may be able to beat a fellow Marbo Practicioner, but what if you suddenly, one day, find yourself against someone who doesnt do what you think he will?

    Unless combat is tried and trained for against adversaries of every make, kind, size, and background it is no more than theory and, as such, no more than fleeting thought. Its worthless and weak. Much like you're arguments and stances here.

    I find your childish "NO! Not GONNA!" attitude insulting and worn, and, quite frankly, beneath anyone who calls themselves a Martial Artist. We are a community, comprised of like minded individuals, all drawn together to share and, in sharing, grow. Your very essence cries in the face of that and is an affront to me.

    As a community we either stand together, open armed and unified or whither on the vine like unpicked grapes. Do you think the styles of martial art that exist today did so by keeping closed doors and training in secret or did they do so by gaining followers, sharing idea, engaging in an exchange of information and in growing? I'll save you having to ask the Archivist. It's the latter.

    Keep your secrets and your closed doors. I say thank God for small favors. I have no desire to exchange ideas or even conversation with someone who comes here with no intent of improving our community or investing themselves in open, honest, discussion. I have no desire to spend one more instant addressing someone who's very tone is unpleasing and abrasive.

    The truth? Your art is exactly what you've told us it is... nothing... and you can defend that nothing with all your heart and soul. Hopefully it will keep you so busy you wont have time to lie to anyone else.

    Good day, Sir.
  17. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    I wont even touch the "saved their life" statement. Unless you live someplace where being attacked by ninjas or bands of roving cutthroats occurs regularly, I find that statement and its dramatic presentation ludicrous. If you live some place where your life is in THAT much danger, you dont take some flooofy super secret martial art, you call a moving company.

    Ok, so I guess I will touch it... a little... but I'll wash my hands right after...
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

  19. peterc8455

    peterc8455 Valued Member

    They finally broke you. :p
  20. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    Eh, I'm done. I try to keep out of stuff like this but that post by memsec (makes me want to type mumra for some reason) really got me. That dismissive, almighty tone just irked me.

    My bullpoop meter goes off just like everyone elses but I try not to get dragged down into it. The stench of bullpoop has a way of making it easy enough to spot without me stomping around in it but every now and then, everyone gets a little poop on their shoes ;)
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page