Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Saturnine138, Jan 4, 2006.
And Ogham aren't runes.
I suggest you bone up on history.Celtic culture(s),yes.Empire,no. Norse runes aren't Celtic. Ogham aren't runes as adouglasmhor also pointed out.
I think you're- a) completely uninformed yourself, or b)deliberately spreading falshoods.
I have no idea why there are references to "Celtic Empire" on the 'net. that's as ridiculous as calling pre-Columbian N. America an Amerindian Empire. Since when did a culture and its various sub-culture branches become an empire without a central government or at least a confederation of sorts?
The worth of the craft/art of the Pathfinder is irrelevant in the context of historical innacuracies. Does it make my opinions more weighty because as a teenager I could write in ogham,and use the knuckles method also? No,it doesn't. However,the thesis I wrote years ago on ogham and the Bobileth and Beth-Luis-Non alphabets would if I had a copy and posted it here,seeing as how it was based on research and scholarship rather than New Agey sounding "mystic Celt" stuff.
The facts are the facts,indeed,as far as is known at this time. So,how does your group fare regarding your knowledge base when debating these things,and Druids in Eastern Europe,etc,etc-that is to say when debating the historians,archaeologists, and others who spend their lives in research in this field? I suppose you tell them the unkown will become known over time,as your org must know so much more than the many,many,many people involved in researching these matters.
Oh,and this applies also to you-"If this reply does not help you progress your knowledge, no problem, you are not my responsibility, I/we have no obligation towards you."
I also don't require this admonishment " If you choose to respond to this, be polite". After all,I'm actually giving you the benefit of the doubt that you believe what you're saying.That's pretty polite,don't ya think?
How about this-if you choose to respond to this please provide historical sources for your claims,and not sources from the New Age bookstores or supposed secret teachings from your org.
Druidism- Read any Piggot lately?
I think you should end your next post with this---"Sean O Duibhir an Gleanna" ---Do you understand the significance?
To Pathwalker peeps.
Much to think about, but even after all that, are your martial arts any good? What are your qualifications in this field?
There is a pretty good book called "[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Celtic-Empire-Millennium-History-1000BC/dp/1841193968"]The Celtic Empire[/ame]" which highlights contributions made by Celtic Peoples to European culture, but it makes clear from the start there was no emperor and no empire as such, the Writer just calls it an "Empire" to highlight hte comparison with Roman, Greek culture s etc. If "A Pathwalker" had read it he would know this.
I found your article and correspondence with the org pathwalker guild very interesting and thought I would share what I know.I knew some members from my local area, where it was called Marbo before the founder moved to Bangor and changed it to the pathwalker guild.Some people also had bad experiences with this group and left. Recruitment was done in our local pubs and some young gullible people joined.
In those days the logo badge was a 5 star pentagram and in the center was a yin and yang symbol with marbo written beneith. ( I have one of these in my junk box and could put it up if someone showed me how.)The pic on the current badge is now the raven.Would this former badge link up with the story they have woven with their celtic druid transylvanian origins? I am no expert but I believe the yin and yang to be eastern, possibly chinese.I agree with your serious doubts and you obviously have researched deeply into these claims. I would have to say that "the unknown is becoming known" and will have to lean strongly to the b choice on your article b)..........Do you know what a ricon is as the founder is one. I also cant find any history of this on the net
this article is in response to El medico and Senban writing on this group pathwalker guild
this is a response to El Medico and Senbans article on the pathwalker guild
Marbo Pathwalker Guild
mojoja we may well have met at some point, who knows, Bangor was a small place and definitely not the centre of the martial arts celtic empire world that a lot of marbo members thought it was.
i was trained by this group but left because of bad experiences as did a lot of other people. i lost count at 40 lol. there was a lot of talk after a sunday session and not much else afterwards really, unkept promises and cliques etc. a good number of us walked away from the system and went about our own lives and for a wide range of reasons, partly because if you didn't agree with the main instructor you at some point were ousted to hellfire, but mainly because we valued maintaining our friendships and were keen to progress our martial arts knowldege and experience away from an inward looking melancholic system.
a common complaint about one of the main instructors was that he lived a life full of contradictions and he didn't practice what he preached. he was very hard to get along with, and towards the end of my time lost a lot of respect because of this. i remember the classes became very unstimulating when we were standing around listening to tittle tattle :Alien: rather than learning the techniques we'd paid for. there was too much attempt at indoctrination and getting more members to join rather than progressing the members through the grades.
many ex members that are still in touch and remain positive about the techniques we learned, we just never wholly bought into the historical verbosity that was sold with the badge after you bowed in at the start of the session - it didn't help when you actually used the techniques in real life, and that's all we wanted.
all this stuff about being a society with secrets and not a secret society whilst drinking lager!! it was pub talk extraordinaire, and we preferred to do push ups whilst others got intoxicated. clubs and societies that don't want their stuff known simply don't build websites about it!! it's amazing how big and diverse you can make your organisation look when you don't have them face the camera and they all wear black hoods!
this forum may see another post by A Pathwalker or someone else from that system in response to what I'm writing here :zzz:, that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. either way i won't be carrying on the discussion, i'd rather benefit from the general forum knowledge and experience on here than get caught up in the tittle tattle i used to pay for. just wanted to share my story. great system, shame about the nonsense. glad to have made and kept friends before, during and after.
thanks for reading all. tally ho and toodle pip!
Very interesting information you have posted.The experiences I mentioned were before the Bangor days so we wouldnt have met, but its good to know there are some intelligent people out there:happy:.Your experiences have much the same flavour as what went on in my local area.I have only posted my comments so as people can choose to join this "secret society!!!!" with some genuine background information before they throw their money at it. Glad you carried on your martial arts training and made some good friends.
Utter Utter rubbish from start to finish.
Marbo Pathwalker Guild
You are welcome Mojoja! the great thing about the internet is that it allows us to show our truths 24 hours a day, and I find it really interesting that we we can share our similar experiences on this forum having never met.
sorry for the misunderstanding, now i've re read your post i understand that you were not part of the Bangor training group.
The badges you talk of, yeah they did re-brand and look like they've continued to do so - they used to do that roughly everytime there was an internal shake up in the organisation, the hell fire i was talking about. the websites have changed at least 4 times in the past decade, it's all trackable in the deep caches of googles catacombs . they've had as many adaptions to the name too.
i thought you said you knew members at first and therefore didn't take part, but if have one of those badges in your junk box you obviously did some training - green? (from their website what they are now calling their red path, apprenticeship etc :turtle: - the latter sounds like sounds a conservative party employment scheme lol!!)
Marbo Pathwalker Guild
they don't use that site / name anymore, they use this one http://pathwalker.eu/index.html
As i said in a previous post, its gets adapted every few years, check the google catacombs:google:
All the Celtic stuff seems to have been dropped...
Marbo Pathwalker Guild
That's right Mitch, or rather adapted into something else inocchio: Not a bad tactic really when you think about it, it annoyed loads of people over the years, from their point of view it probably served them well to reinvent and change their face to shake off the negativity
And yep, they've changed their name again! back to what it was years ago (thus confirming the need to stay slippery, oh and 'Apex' lol)
for 2012 they are back to The Marbo School of Martial Arts and Survival:
and shifted their 'admin' site to here:
even on facebook too
didn't take them so long to change after this small group in London put up a site:
Sure 2013 will see another reinvention of the wheel
In response to several previous posts.
To those who believe they had a bad experience, please accept our most sincere apologies. It is time to move on. I’m sure I speak for those members who might remember you when I wish you all the best in your endeavours and hope you can rise above your bitterness and remember the many great times and the excellent friends made and training you were given.
Members having had a “Bad” experience during their membership, runs counter to both the purpose and aims of the organisation. We have systems in place, including greater instructor accountability that are designed to avoid a recurrence. We proffer our most sincere apologies to those members affected by other members lack of adherence to the protocols [of the organisation] or indeed, the poor management at the time. We hope these “ex members” continue progressing positively with a memory of the many “good and great” times, achievements and friendships they would undoubtedly have experienced during their membership of Marbo Pathwalker.
Dear ex member. Judging by your choice of words you are no longer in the loop re Marbo and its progression into the 21st century. I can only guess you left under a dark cloud, if so please accept our most sincere appologies, whatever the reason. The organisation known as Marbo, Pathwalker, Marbo Pathwalker and The Pathwalker Guild is not at all slippery as you [humourously] suggest, a third of our members having been with us for between 10 and 25yrs! Our instructors abide by a Code of Conduct and a Code of Practice. Times have changed and the organisation has changed with the times. The excellent training remains as it has since the time of founding, the difference being the Pathwalker Guild oversees training standards and facilities, the Marbo School of Martial Arts and Survival runs the branches. We now have checks and ballances in place to avoid those situations (including poor management) that affected members some years ago in N Wales. Many ex members still support our efforts with regards our conservation group (Crogen) and our Sanctuary project in Transylvania. As one such ex member I'm sure you had many positive experiences with the Marbo, made great freinds, benefited from the training you were given and walking your Path with both honour and skill. I/we wish you all the best for the future. Please remember, the Marbo Pathwalker organisation is not for profit, and is run by the members for the benefit of the members.
When many people have bad experiences, they have a right to talk about it so that others may learn about it, so that in turn newcomers to the martial arts world can make their own opinion and choose what to get involved in. Thankfully, this forum is one of many places on the web where people can come and openly share their martial arts experiences and truths, whether good, bad, ugly, positive, enlightening or anything else for that matter. Attempting to white wash people’s truths by labelling it bitterness won’t have any real effect. Google holds the truths of a lot of people, so there’s no need to create a new war of words on here, the social media world has already given the world the ability to do that to a positive end, where people will make their own conclusions. That wasn’t as possible in the pub or at the Hideaway many years ago.
You are correct about the dark cloud, if you read the above posts in this forum string alone and surf the internet, lots of people left your organisation because of the dark cloud carried around one of the main instructors (the one who talks of Celtic empires and tells people to ‘be polite’ above), and also those instructors that helped prop him up by blindly following ‘protocol’ as you call it. And by left, this definition includes a) those that left of their own accord, b) those that were kicked, c) those who were pushed, and d) those who left for many other reasons.
When you talk of times changing, well, I sincerely doubt that that has happened – your main instructor and his words are still plastered all over your websites, so the poor management you acknowledge is clearly still in place. Due to this reason alone, the non-active / active ex members will just stay away, egroup included, and get on with what they need to. Posting administrative information, and talking of systems being in place etc, can’t change people’s bad experiences.
With regards to moving on, well yes, lots of people voted with their feet and did that years ago due to reasons a) to d) mentioned above, and many have maintained close ties without being actively involved in the Marbo Pathwalker Guild Chargash Zamora Apex Martial Art Marbo School of Martial Arts and Survival MSMASS Bushcraft Crogen Hideaway PG Sanctuary project in Transylvania MSMAS etc etc etc.
As a final thought, your organisation would probably benefit from checking its own loops once in a while, admittedly that was far more difficult 20 years ago.
I totally agree that people should tell others of there experiences so that they can benefit from the good ones and avoid the bad ones. I believe there is truth in much of what you say, but unless you are part of the Marbo org as it is now you cant know how much things have changed, and all for the better. There are no "cliques" as mentioned in earlier posts, no "Tittle tattle", no meetings in pubs or student high jinx. I believe the organisation did lose a few good members and I'm sure they are missed by those who knew them. Having said that, a few years ago one of the old members mentioned that things improved as soon as a bunch left the N Wales Marbo. The fact you still think about your time with Marbo suggests it impacted on your life, as it does [positively] with most, if not all who are members now that I know. You must have benefited from the great training and you mentioned Crogen so you must have been there and no doubt had a good time, as I have the few times I've been privilaged to be invited. Marbo is a very efficiently run organisation and I've had nothing but positive experiences in the past five years. Progression, safety, cameraderie and positivity are the order of the day. I'm sure you made many freinds while you were a member and I'm sure you're grateful for that and the training you were priviliged to recieve. I spoke to the main instructor a few days ago and mentioned this forum. He is not the most sociable person but he is brilliant at what he does. He had no comment re the posts other than to say he missed some of the "old guys" and to pass on his regards. So all the best! A happy and proud to be, Marbo member.
Thanks for the suggestion to check "loops" I'll pass that on to our website manager.
You have missed the point about the loops, i wasn't referring to websites, i was referring to your membership; my point is that you don't have to be a member to kept up to date about what is going on. As previously stated - people stay away from http://www.marboschool.co.uk/ because he is still at the centre of it, so thanks for the double confirmation that the poor management is still in place, and that he's still good at smiling and manipulating people. Crogen still epitomises the false promise it always was. Regards aren't reciprocated. I think it's about time for your next white wash attempt about what a great organisation you are.
Hi again ex Pathwalker. I refuse to engage in tit for tat, as this would mean you drawing me in to your world of negative "tittle tattle". I cant understand why you are obsessed with whats going on in Marbo, who visits or does'nt visit the (great) website, the head honchos winning smile. If he was a manipulator I'm sure he would be very wealthy, but its obvious he is not. He is however, passionate about the quality of instruction, the standard of instructors, progression of members and achieving the (honourable) aims of the org, this we all know. For your info, the website was created and managed by one of the members with contributions (pics and words) from members, the members secretary organised my trip to the brilliant Sanctuary door to door and during my visit I was brilliantly fed and catered to by one of the Sanctuary trustees. I have worked in many countries and several occupations and I believe the management of the Marbo org is A+. The centre of the org is its membership, this is very clear, not the head honcho. I hardly know the man, but I do know he runs great sessions and serves his members (his bosses) very well. There is no need whatsoever to be rude to me when we have obviously never met. I still wish you the best and hope you get out from under your depressive dark cloud. Spring is coming, life is good and Marbo is brilliant. Please, no more venom, thats not what this forum, or life, is about.
Separate names with a comma.