Many martial arts have a fairly standard sequence in which students are taught things such as forms/kata. Some arts have branches in this flow based on your body type (such as Wah Lum preying mantis) but even then there's a predictable order in which you are normally taught things. What if your teacher deviates from that order with you? I'm asking here because I would like the input from teachers as well as students with experiences in this matter. In Wing Chun, we have six forms. In our lineage they are normally taught in this order: Sil Lim Tao Chum Kiu Mook Yan Jong (Wooden Dummy) Bil Jee Pole Baat Jaam Dao I have not learned Chum Kiu yet, but my sifu started me on the wooden dummy form. (He did say he plans to start me on Chum Kiu in a week or so, so I think the idea is to have me learn both at the same time since the dummy really helps with footwork.) I can ask my sifu for his reasons. That's not the issue. I am just curious if some of you have had that happen, and if some of you teachers have deviated from your normal syllabus to teach a student out of sequence for some reason. Thanks!
Good question! Since that is the order in which they are normally taught, I would like to think there is a really good reason why they are taught in that order. I know that everything else builds on Sil Lim Tao, but I thought that the traditional sequencing of the forms was established for some reasons that would make more sense as I learned more. Keep in mind, I am not complaining. I like the wooden dummy because it helps me develop my footwork while having an obvious reference for the opponent. I was just curious if anyone else had encountered a similar situation or if any of you teachers out there have taught things out of the normal sequence for certain reasons. I'm curious about other people's thoughts and experiences.
I can't remember ever having a teacher who stuck rigidly to syllabus order, and I've trained with a great number of different teachers over the years. Often the order is varied because the numbers in the class mean there is no-one else to work with at your level, and so the teacher makes a call as to who, at that point in time, needs to focus on a particular area the most. Sometimes the order is changed because the teacher feels that an element from elsewhere in the syllabus will help you overcome a problem better than the normal order. It may be that the teacher has a theme to the lesson and it is easier to work this through another syllabus area. While the order of the syllabus may indicate a common order of progression, it does not mean that it is the best order of progression for every student. A good teacher works within the syllabus to insure that the majority of the students get to work on what they most need at any point in time, and that often means changing the order.
We have done Sil Lim Tao and Chum Kiu, we have practised various footwork and hand techniques which are in Biu Gee and the dummy form, I guess it gives us a little insight so when we do eventually learn Biu Gee and the dummy form, some of the moves will already be familiar. We are still working on Chum Kiu to refine the form. We also did the Luk Dim Boon Kwun for the first time as a xmas treat.
I like your teacher's approach. You have to "develop" your skill first before you can use your solo form to "polish" it. The wooden dummy is like partner training. It should be the "starting point".
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me. Coming from Wah Lum Preying Mantis, the footwork is VERY different, and that has been a major problem for me in the various application drills. Now that I have Sil Lim Tao down well enough that Sifu thinks I can learn another form, starting me on the wooden dummy form makes more sense because the dummy is a reference point for me to use to improve my footwork. My Sifu's been doing Wing Chun for over 30 years and had 10 years of Shotokan before that. He's been at this for a long time and really knows his stuff. That and he's just a cool guy. Classes always run over time because we get into something and we're exploring applications, and then we just talk for a while afterward. It's a small group with a really strong sense of community. Now I need to find a place to put a wooden dummy...
In Hapkido, we have a pretty set reason for the order we teach stuff, for example, breakfalls come first along with footwork, blocks, and strikes before getting into locks and throws. Even a ot of the self defense is taught from wrist grabs to make the application easier to begin with and then as you progress, the parts are sewn together even more. I do. A lot of it depends on the student and their aptitude, reasons, and questions. I am usually known as the 'curriculum' guy at school because I like to stick pretty closely to the curriculum and progress through the steps as it was designed. However, sometimes, jumping "ahead" to more advanced techniques (especially if it ties into the material already learned) is good way to add some variety and excitement in, as well show what direction we are heading.So, for example, if we are working a wrist lock take-down from a wrist garb, I might show the same lock used from a lapel grab to show how things evolve (and get the minds thinking). I might skip ahead in the curriculum if a question comes up - I feel that if a student asks a question in a self defense class that it should be addressed, preferably during the class (if not one-on-one). Usually I will explain why we work on this later, but will show them how it works. In some cases, it may be very specific, e.g. if we have a law enforcement officer who asks about transitioning from an escorting technique to a handcuffing technique, that can be addressed right there. Other times, it may be to add a bit of spice into class, especially if students are more advanced (or transferred over from another art).
In artificial intellegence, this approach is called "backward search". Instead of searching from the root to a particular leaf. You start from the leaf and search back to the root. Since a root has many leafs but a leaf only has 1 root, the backward search is much faster. After you have learned your "application", the solo form training will make sense.
Good explanation of the backward search. (I'll PM you with details on that one.) That's actually how I wound up starting the wooden dummy form - Sifu was showing an application and he said "It's just like in the dummy form" and realized that I was the only one in the room who had not done the form, so he started me on the form.
One guy has been with me for 10 years. Oneday he asked me, "When are you going to teach me any form"? I told him, "You have learned so many partner training, by doing it solo, you will obtain your solo drills. If you link your solo drills in logical sequence, you will have your own solo forms."
I used to do that in Wah Lum Preying Mantis (not that there was any lack of forms in that style). I'd create my own forms once I understood the principles on which the other forms were built, like starting and ending at the same spot, always starting with a defensive move and always ending with an attack, etc. It's a fun way to explore your system and try new things. I do that with Wing Chun, too, especially with the wooden dummy.
