opposite lead??

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by TkdWarrior, Oct 11, 2002.

  1. TkdWarrior

    TkdWarrior Valued Member

    hmm guys normally MAists fight with same lead ie if ur oppnt left leg is forward so ur's... now wat happen if ur oppnt changes his lead to opposite of urs?
    do u need to change ur lead too?
    or do u fight with same lead?
    and imagine ur in Close quarters and u r changing ur lead do u think ur oppn't hav a chance to attack u while u r changing??

    my preference i'll fight without changing my lead...i hav been on taking ends when changing leads...it puts u in no man's land sometime...
    wat u guys think?
    and one thing more i hav asked so many questions but havn't seen anyone of them answered.??wat's up guys...

  2. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    i find iam better at certain techniques on different leads ie orthodox for boxing and south paw for mainly trapping etc. I also feel that Iam better a different kicks on different leads. One thing I find hard is to achieve the balance of power ie being able to throw a cross with the same power on different leads.

    Why do TKD's switch leads all the time? its like a telegraph for a certain technique(s)
  3. TkdWarrior

    TkdWarrior Valued Member

    umm where's my post?? i just posted a reply...
    anyways i post again... TKD doesn't only one who switch lead
    ppl hav trained this way(first advice) and they always hav their best foot/hand forward...and they find uncomfortable while changing leads...
    if u notice boxing stance it's open stance and their lead doesn't matter much...
  4. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    I disagree as you find that your lead in boxing is very important. Its the nature of the game, you win boxing matches generally with hitting your oponent with powerful strikes hoping for that knockout. The most common knockout comes from the cross (IMHO) and if your right handed then the right cross will be more powerful than the left basically because you use your right hand more often and the same goes for left handed fighters. If watch fighters over their careers you notice that they almost always tend to fight orthodox or southpaw and dont change. This is because they know what lead works for them.
  5. TkdWarrior

    TkdWarrior Valued Member

    i never said that lead isn't important, i said their lead doesn't matter much because of their style of fighting...
    hmmm... i hav cross trained against boxer and one thing for sure my boxer freind rarely changed lead(because of his exposure to TKD,Karate?? who knows) didn't matter he was still bombarding me with his punches...
  6. waya

    waya Valued Member

    I think it depends on your own skill. Sometimes I'll change my lead, sometimes I don't. Depends on what attacks I am using or if I want to change my style of fighting.

  7. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    I don't go in for this sort of free sparring much, but when I learnt it as a kid we would put much store on being able to fight from either stance. Training in different clubs I noticed how much it disconcerted people (who weren't used to that sort of thing) when you switched stance half way through a fight. Just when they were beginning to think they'd got the measure of you the whole game would suddenly change:)

    From a self-defence point of view I think you need to be able to work with either leg forward. You can't stop and say "I say old chap, would you promise not to hit while I just change to my preferred stance?"

  8. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Well, you can stop and say it, and it might well throw them for a moment, but its not recommended.

    We train for a fairly high, almost boxing stance, and work from both leads equally as much as possible.
  9. Helm

    Helm New Member

    Well from my WTF sparring experience, what you are asking about it "open" and "closed" stances in sparring.
    A 'Closed' stance is where both of you have your left feet (or both have right feet) foward and the right foot (or left foot) at the back.
    This is known as closed as it offers no chance of launching a straight powerful attack off the back leg, as the only target exposed is the (illegal) back.
    This is the most common way of sparing, as most competitors leave their more powerful leg back, to score the points with, as it has the extra distance to travel it can gain more speed, and as such a more powerful strike.
    With the closed stance, it offers little chance of scoring straight off the back leg, this is why TKD competitors switch stance, so they can then switch their left leg back, and use it to throw a kick from the back leg.

    An 'open' stance in sparring is where one competitor has his left leg forward, and the other has his right leg forward...
    Both have the oppertunity to throw kicks straight off the back leg to score points.

    I often switch to an open stance in sparring to force my opponent to spar how i would like, so i am controling the fight....
    A constantly switching stance is confusing to your opponent, as they cannot be sure if you will launch from the front or back..

    I hope i answered some of your questions =D
  10. TkdWarrior

    TkdWarrior Valued Member

    Ckdstudent ur point is good, it's like asking for time out in middle of fight :D i like that if ur oppnt' isn't ready it can play on his psyhcie...
    helm u pointed out good thing...controlling the fight... be this way or another...u should be the one...
    i hav been advised to practice with both legs n both leads...
    from stances to no stances...
    i havn't done competition sparring much so i hav not much idea...
    whenever i hav done sparring i used to get in there and deliever punches and dont let`em go... it worked 95% times except against some good black belts...
  11. Helm

    Helm New Member

    All i can say is that you rarely will score a hit from a single kick, the front leg is used like a 'jab', to setup for the 'blow' from the back leg.
    I.e. i would skip forwards to kick with my left leg, and then twist my hips and throw a kick off my back leg, this closes the distance, and often people just 'skip' out of the way...i.e. just jump backwards once, to avoid the left, the right follows up to score...
    This is why people prefer to have the right leg back, as this is the 'scoring' leg, and most important that you use your more powerful and dexterious leg for that final blow.

    The only instance where i would use a right lead would be to quickly skip onto my right, and throw a hook-kick or a step-in sidekick.

    As i am right footed i often change stances, taking a half step forwards (this distance closing is discreet) and immediately throw a half-turning kick with my (now) back left leg, or turn clockwise (backwards) then throw, or simply throw a 360o with my left leg.

    I also train alot with my leg left in hook-kicks, axe-kicks, pit-kicks and side kicks, as this is my form of defence against a charging opponent, allowing me to slow them down, and again, deliver a strong right leg.
  12. darlph

    darlph New Member

    As a TKD practicianer I must agree with Helm 100%. If you switch leads and they do it you are controlling the fight and that is wah tyou want. IE we are taught left foot mainly in front but some us will switch and then we start scoring because our opponent is probably mostly one sided. That is why we switch leads in training and basics drills. Or in my case, I have a powerful right leg but a weak left knee, so my supporting leg is mainly my right and I switch my leads to kick with my left. It surprises alot of opponents because I start in orthodox lead and then do a switch, it throws their targets areas way off.
    In MA you should try to be adept at using both sides equally, but the great spirit has given us a challenge as humans that one side is better than the other. So we must work hard at it and do our best.:)
  13. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Closed and open stances on the street really aren't that useful...you'll find that your opponent probably won't drop into a nice stance.
  14. morphus

    morphus Doobrey

    All this swapping stance talk is very nice, but in a fast moving street confrontation your opponant isn't going to give a damn, if he is experienced(a real fighter)he will close the gap so quick, it won't matter what stance you're in. But if you learn to be aware, staying light on your feet(i don't mean bobbing round like tigger on speed - as in semi-contact comps) and learn to fight from both left and right stance and also a neutral stance and kneeling down etc, well then you got a chance, swapping stance is only part of the story.

    As for jabbing with the front foot - personally i wouldn't recommened it. Again in a fast moving real confrontation you'll be lucky to one good kick in never mind two.

    My opinion anyway!:)
  15. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    I agree. Such tactics are pertinent to sparring, but have little relevance for self-defence.

    Agreed again, this sounds like a foolhardy tactic outside of the dojo. That said, Neil and Dave the UK Kung Fu teachers did a session at the recent UK Meet on low kicking as the assailant comes storming in. They're very good at it and can use it very effectively. I think it requires exquisite timing though and therefore much, much practice. Note though that I said "low kicking", ie. to the knee.

    I also think its only pertinent to some situations, ie. when the assailant comes storming in from a distance, his intent clear. More frequently I find that assaults begin at a closer range after some verbal exchange and gradual build up of testosterone.

  16. darlph

    darlph New Member

    Quite right ya'll. Different stances for different situations Iwas talking in sparring not real street fighting. Personally what ever happens to work in street fights is okay by me, but I'd rather stick to the dojo and try to avoid the other, I beleive that is the situation thet Helm was talking about and also Tkdwarrior with the lead thing..
  17. Helm

    Helm New Member

    Yup, i tried to make it clear that lead was relitive to sparring in the dojo, completely 100%, there is no way i can say what will or will not work on the streets.
    This is a TKD forum, and as such, and the way TKD is, there is full contact sparring, and techniques used in such a situation are, i suppose, similar to a real life situation in some ways...

    However, saying lead is not of any use in a real life situation unmines human balace as a whole.
    The sparring stance is evenly distributed weight accross both feet, with a side-on stance makes the target smaller.
    Ofcourse, in sparring, with an experienced opponent, they will read MUCH more into what you are doing, with respect to how you are moving...
    Dropping my shoulder in a real life situation is unlikely to provoke a reaction...
    In sparring my opponent is likely to read that i am shifting my weight to this side of my body, and therefore launching an attack with the other side (foot or leg).
    There are infinate possibilities for infinate situations, im just offering my little peice of the pie ;-)
  18. TkdWarrior

    TkdWarrior Valued Member

    well in real situation i won't care if my oppn't changes lead...i'll get him down no matter wat happens...by any means is my MOTTO...
    yup leading is basically for sparring...
  19. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    if someone pushes you in the back and u lose balance what leg do you put out first?

    I would say that is your natural lead
  20. Helm

    Helm New Member

    in a fight situation i would hope a well trained martial artist is going to act on instinct...
    if you actually have to stop and THINK "what leg shall i put in front" then ask why you are going to fight in the first place.

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