Online Ninja Training

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by kikentai, Jul 10, 2010.

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  1. kikentai

    kikentai Valued Member

    kikentai, Jul 10, 2010
    #1
  2. Hatamoto

    Hatamoto Beardy Man Kenobi Supporter

    Speaking of the Bujinkan, why don't people take them more seriously?

    Oh, right... :)

    .... Wait, that's Chris Carbonaro's doing? ah man, I respected that guy, is it really him or is someone just using his name in their association to look more legit? :s Now I dunno what to think of him :(
     
    Hatamoto, Jul 10, 2010
    #2
  3. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    Personally, I'm happier having a real job and teaching who, how, and when I want (and having many of my students go to Japan on their own to get The Real Feeling Of Japan for themselves).

    I'll say this, though: If you're going to make your living from teaching the art, you have to market yourself. Branding becomes critically important.

    The "metallic membership levels" look borrowed from Ignatius piazza at Front Sigbt: http://www.frontsight.com/bronze-membership.asp
     
    Dale Seago, Jul 10, 2010
    #3
  4. kikentai

    kikentai Valued Member

    It's really him. But, soon there will be more... I love and hate technology. The 21st century sucks for budo!
     
    kikentai, Jul 10, 2010
    #4
  5. seattletcj

    seattletcj Valued Member

    DO people really need it?
    No, its not necessary.
    Except for an ego-trip.
     
    seattletcj, Jul 10, 2010
    #5
  6. markspada

    markspada Banned Banned

    markspada, Jul 10, 2010
    #6
  7. ninjaboy

    ninjaboy Valued Member

    Here is another example of online training . Although he isnt the one doing the courses , he is a direct result of what you get when you offer them . This guy asked me for gradings once , but didnt want to train for them . Had lied to his students for years , saying he was a nidan in the bujinkan , he was never , ever in the bujinkan and never had any dan grade . He then went for a holiday to nagano and dropped in to watch a class of Hatsumi sensei`s , but never trained . And in the end bought his grading online with a black belt course , and now thinks he is good enough to post on youtube , :rolleyes: gregh www.cairnsninjutsu.com
     
    ninjaboy, Jul 11, 2010
    #7
  8. Nojon

    Nojon Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein

    His source of power, are the gloves..:)
     
    Nojon, Jul 11, 2010
    #8
  9. kikentai

    kikentai Valued Member

    kikentai, Jul 11, 2010
    #9
  10. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I think that, for the vast majority of people, as soon as they start needing money from martial arts they start down a slippery slope that not only compromises their integrity but also profoundly affects their and their students' taijutsu over time

    Soke gave us a model to judge people by last year and often talks of the diseases of martial artists (ref Sanmyaku)
     
    Dunc, Jul 11, 2010
    #10
  11. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    I've come across commercial dojo (not Bujinkan ones) that managed to earn money and keep a high level of quality and integrity, it can be done.
     
    Dean Winchester, Jul 11, 2010
    #11
  12. benkyoka

    benkyoka one million times

    Can you elaborate on this point?
     
    benkyoka, Jul 11, 2010
    #12
  13. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    Dunc, that puts me in mind of this from Nagato shihan:

    http://tazziedevil.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/moko-speaks/
     
    Dale Seago, Jul 11, 2010
    #13
  14. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    Dale Seago, Jul 11, 2010
    #14
  15. Ace of Clubs

    Ace of Clubs Banned Banned

    Nice way to make money. $100 upfront and $50 a month recurring.

    Even if only 100 people sign up he would be making more than $5000 US a month, and all he has to do is upload videos of class (which his students are paying him for as well).

    You only need so much money for training and $60000 US a year is really just greedy.


    I know Chris and unless I have seriously misjudged his character (which is a possibility) I don't think he would do something like this. Also I doubt Nagato has given permission for the owners of that site to put up videos of him.

    Chris and his students (and friends) seemed like a really good bunch, it really is strange to see something like this.
     
    Ace of Clubs, Jul 11, 2010
    #15
  16. stephenk

    stephenk Valued Member

    I don't wonder why none of these online things tends to stick around for more than a year or two, 'cause it ain't because they're making 60k a year from it.
     
    stephenk, Jul 11, 2010
    #16
  17. Ace of Clubs

    Ace of Clubs Banned Banned

    Although, it seems like RvD is making a mint :)
     
    Ace of Clubs, Jul 11, 2010
    #17
  18. stephenk

    stephenk Valued Member

    He's probably doing okay, although I wonder if these guys like RVD and SKH are really taking away the kind of money that some people seem to think they are.

    As for RVD, I wonder how much of it is from his general sales of Hatsumi videos and translations. He was the only person in the US (that I knew of) for quite awhile selling them, and I have to say his service, in my experience, has been excellent - so in that sense, I don't mind so much if he's taking away some cash, it's well deserved.

    (Although, now I order through Tengu Weapons - they're the cheapest I've seen lately and the service has been good also.)
     
    stephenk, Jul 11, 2010
    #18
  19. kikentai

    kikentai Valued Member

    I'm sure there is a return for the time they have spent setting this stuff up. Otherwise such wise ninja business men wouldn't bother with the project.

    Are they getting huge returns probably not but can they be full time "shihan" joudans for the masses buy doing it. Yes. I don't mind people who throw up their own video for sale and share as a tool not made to be instructional. But, selling Japanese "kuden" through a website kind of defeats the whole idea of "kuden" doesn't it.

    Are Bujinkan webinars the future of the martial art? If you ask Chris he'd probably tell you that Nagato sensei approves of it.

    What is the next decade for martial arts going to have? More of the same? Americans are too quick to make a buck off the martial arts.

    All the video lessons won't make a dent in your taijutsu. You have to train to get better training to a video won't do.
     
    kikentai, Jul 12, 2010
    #19
  20. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    So here's my attempt to elaborate:

    For many years Soke’s been saying how important it is to find a good teacher (& that it’s our personal responsibility to do this). In my view Soke gave us a model in 2009 to not only guide our own development but also to assess our teachers by. The theme was Nouryoku Kokoro Utsuwa (or Sainou Shin Ki etc)
    This seems to be translated along the lines of:
    • Natural talent (eg he has a gift for music) or knack
    • Heart/spirit/mind/soul (perhaps generosity, drive, resilience and hard work are outputs of this characteristic?)
    • Calibre or capacity (eg he has the potential to do the top job)

    Soke used to produce a magazine called Sanmyaku, he wrote about the diseases there - you can still buy copies I think

    I am paraphrasing;

    Soke said that if you don't possess the heart of a budoka then leave martial arts - even a 15th dan will amount to no more than a beginner without the correct heart

    As a doctor Soke analysed the symptoms of the main diseases that martial artists can fall foul of:

    1 - Number one type
    Soke calls them the underdeveloped type, self centred, fussy about grades and titles, wanting to be important/"number 1". He says that these are the worst type of all and are the most easily killed

    2 - Business type
    They need to earn a living as a martial artist. Soke elaborates and says that they believe that someone with many students is great and they worry about loosing a student as it means lost income. Furthermore they do not notice that as a martial artist they are a failure. In his experience no master of martial arts has ever come from this type

    3 - Reporter type
    These people collect materials, notes, photographs and consider these more important than the training. They never get beyond the "this is right & this is wrong" mentality, often not realising that they are in this state and never progress beyond the amateur level

    He goes on to say that there are many other types such as:
    - Sensei-shihan type
    - Mood type
    - Collector type
    - Violent type
    - Animal type
    - Religious type
    - Philosophical type

    He ends by saying that you can only understand the true nature of martial arts by making these diseases transparent. It’s difficult to explain this concept I think, but my view is that the true nature of a martial artist is simply not having a disease of the "heart"

    Please note that I'm not saying that I feel everyone making money from training falls foul of this issue, just that it's a very real risk

    Personally I recognise all these diseases in me to some extent and I continually try to avoid becoming sick by any one of them. But this is difficult, and probably it becomes more difficult as you progress.........
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
    Dunc, Jul 12, 2010
    #20
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