Now here is BJJ...

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by Korpy, May 20, 2007.

  1. Korpy

    Korpy Whatever Works

    I just want to post a vid because alot of noobs come on here and say stuff like:

    "BJJ is just sport, it has no self defense"

    "(insert art here) is so much better then BJJ for the street"

    or my favorite "BJJ has NO street value"

    I have seen this vid a million times and will probably see it a million times more. It's at a PRIDE event. It was a demo for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu self defense. (also later in the vid, they do some sparring)

    It's done by Rickson and Royler Gracie. The self defense in the video is very great, alot better then alot of the HKD/JJJ/ect self defense stuff I've seen. They show it against strikes, against a clubbing weapon, and knife defense.


    [ame=""]Rickson and Royler - YouTube[/ame]
  2. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Japanese crowds = Knowledgeable and full of class. You hear that? Silence, followed by applause. No booing, shouting, screaming.

    And do you see where he transitions from the failed armbar to the triangle? EVERYONE in the audience knew exactly what happened, laughed, and applauded at the quick fix! How many American fans even know what's going on besides the fact that they are on the ground?

    I gotta learn Japanese and go watch fights there.
  3. Korpy

    Korpy Whatever Works

    Yes I noticed that too. The Japanese crowds are mesmerized (as was I) when they saw that demo. Great trasitions. Failed armbar, to a triangle, back to an armbar.

    But the bigger picture is for people to see the self defense. Alot of noobs think that BJJ's self defense is pulling guard on the street. It's simply not true. There's throws and other takedowns which will put you on top. (sometimes you wont even have to go to the ground)

    Also an interesting note, Helio Gracie himself said "I did not create a sport, I created the best self defense style in the world"
  4. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    Yeah, but what did Carlson say about Helio "creating" BJJ?
  5. Devildog2930

    Devildog2930 Teneo vestri ego.

    Firstly These guys technique and grace is a pleasure to watch but self defence this is not. Their BJJ technique was second to none and brilliantly demonstraited but much like the countless other martial arts out there that claim to show self defence demo's there was not one decent attack to actually defend against. Come on, not one decent punch thrown.The front kick anyone could have stopped and the knife and stick attack was as weak as any karate or aikido demo i've seen. Grappling is an important PART of self defence. BJJ alone is just sport, but that doesn't mean that if you add what you learn to the greater sum of the parts that you can't apply what you've learnt from sport to self defence after all a world class sprinter is going to be able to run away alot faster than the average Joe. ;)
  6. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    At least their techniques are reasonably feasible.
  7. Korpy

    Korpy Whatever Works

    I'm sorry but that is plain idiotic to say that what you saw was not self defense . Would you rather see an HKD/Aikido self defense demo where all they do is spin around and do little wrist flicks? Or possibly a Krav Maga seminar with deadly groin kicks and eye pokes.

    Also once again, you have made a stupid comment. "BJJ alone is sport"

    Wrong, just plain wrong. BJJ started as self defense then went to sport. Know what you're talking about before you write.


    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2007
  8. Devildog2930

    Devildog2930 Teneo vestri ego.

    No one was knocking their technique. Do you really believe that BJJ covers all aspects of self defence :eek: .
    May I suggest you check out Geoff Thompson for a more realistic approach.
    Sorry I have to disagree with you that BJJ is not a sport.
    Boxing is a sport that can be applied to self defence.
    Muay Thai is a sport that can be applied to self defence.
    BJJ is a sport that can be applied to self defence.
    All three can be used in self defence situations effectivley but they are all just parts of a bigger picture.
    Awareness is the most important part followed by Phsycology then effective fight training at all ranges.
    Anyone who says that ( Insert practiced martial art here) is a complete self defence system is talking rubbish. And that includes BJJ. :bang:
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2007
  9. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    This was supposed to just be a clean vid for folks to enjoy. Jesu, Devildog, why the hell can't you just accept the demo as a demo and the sport part as sport?!?

    (Admittedly Korpy isn't the best judge with the way he hopped from style to style in terms of interest, but this tangent really wasn't necessary).

  10. Devildog2930

    Devildog2930 Teneo vestri ego.

    BJJ started out as JUDO and was modified by the gracies and on the ground improved upon. How does this = self defence.
    I take Taekwondo but never claim for this to be for self defence. I also train in Judo, kyokushin karate and kickboxing. I do each of these for different reasons but none for self defence.
    I've never had a problem defending myself and although some of my martial arts may help me when needs be, I would recomend none as a stand alone method of self defence. All I can say is good luck when comming up against someone who is equal to yourself at grappling andf you have no other form of backup plan but there again your probably going to tell me that your the deadliest grappler in the world and no one can escape youre deadly armbar
  11. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    No, where did I say that?
    Have, not interested.
    Where did I say that BJJ is not a sport? I did say that your claim that BJJ is just a sport is false. Which it is.
    It's also a martial art complete with ritual, courtesies, and etiquette that happens to be far older than taekwondo, aikido, judo, Choy Lee Fut, and many other japanese/chinese/korean martial arts.
    But not only a sport.
    Yup. If you want to have absolutely every possible situation covered.
    Okay... and? please note that you said "complete" self defense system.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2007
  12. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    It covers the physical confrontation portion of self defense. Simple. Are you saying that Judo and things like that are not and cannot be self defense?
    That's your choice. Others choose to train in martial arts to cover the physical altercation part of self defense. There is nothing wrong with this.
    Are you a troll?
  13. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Got it in one, Ath.
  14. Devildog2930

    Devildog2930 Teneo vestri ego.

    What ! and miss my chance to mess with these BJJ is the dogs B******s guys :p
  15. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    (Fine, anth *pout* )

    It's totally unnecessary, Devildog.
    Last edited: May 20, 2007
  16. Anth

    Anth Daft. Supporter

    Keep the thread clean, please folks. Theres no need for swearing, personal attacks or any other having a go at each other, and I will lock the thread if people cant stick to the Terms of Service.
  17. Devildog2930

    Devildog2930 Teneo vestri ego.

    No what I'm saying is that first and foremost I believe that all Martial Arts have become forms of contest, whether that is gaining the next rank or competing in tournements.
    You guys need to chill, I'm not trolling just stating that I'm getting as tired of people putting BJJ as the ultimate stand alone system as of people are of seeing Taekwondo posters claiming for the instructor to be teaching the only form of self defence you ever need to know.
    I enjoy watching BJJ for what it is. I have often stated that if a BJJ school opened up near me I'd be first in the que to join.
    Its a personal choice but I chose to do MA because I find it fun not because I want to defend myself.
    Excelent Video clip showing great technique which could be used for self defence agreed. Proved self defence against an all out attack it was not.
    Just My View Enough said.
    Last edited: May 20, 2007
  18. Devildog2930

    Devildog2930 Teneo vestri ego.

    Ok anth, sorry for the language will tone it down.
  19. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    I'm with Devildog entirely here... it's a good video of BJJ techniques but it's hardly evidence of BJJ's brilliant self defence applications. If it were then all those videos out there were people demonstrate self defence applications against a compliant partner are equally valid.

    Devildog isn't saying anything that should be causing people to get all worked up: BJJ is primarily a sport and that's not an insult! It's clear to me everytime I go to my BJJ class; most of the people are training for upcoming competitions, we don't spend hours going through using BJJ in self defence scenarios and I mean for flip sake folks consider for instance the fact that when rolling people aren't striking unless your doing MMA orientated BJJ! That doesn't mean pure BJJ isn't applicable in self defence situations but I don't see anywhere where he seems to have made this argument, just lots of people getting in a tizzy because someone dares to point out that its a compliant demonstration.

    Atharel's point is pretty valid i.e. BJJ is useful in self defence and therefore not ONLY a sport but the same could be said for boxing and we still say boxing is a sport.
  20. TheMightyMcClaw

    TheMightyMcClaw Dashing Space Pirate

    I've always enjoyed the BJJ self-defense curriculum. While some of is kind of 'meh,' I do like the idea that they always rely on body leverage to remove an opponent, instead of pain compliance. No 'pinch to the back of the leg from a headlock' or 'hammerfist to the groin when someone's grabbed you from behind nonsense'.
    I forget where I read this, but I saw someone describe BJJ as having three aspects: BJJ for self-defense, BJJ for value tudo/MMA competition, and BJJ for sport grappling. While the sport grappling seems to be the dominant aspect of BJJ nowadays (it certainly is at my club, though we do devote some training to self defense), it doesn't invalidate the existence of the others.
    I'm curious - how many people have a self-defense curriculum at their schools? We have one that's sometimes conducted during our gi class, though it's usually the first thing to go when Rodrigo gets really excited about teaching something (such as when he was getting into throws this past winter, or open guard last year before that). It's the same type of stuff Rickson and Royler demonstrated, or that is on my beloved "Gracie Jiu-jitsu Street Self Defense" videos from the nineties.

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