No internal martial artists in ufc?

Hey Wuwei,

I see what you mean. However, let me share an interesting experience with you, when I was teaching on of my friends Qi Gong. This form of Qi Gong I was teaching is quite complex and requires one to keep some very precise alignments while moving. I was watching my student to ascertain that he was doing things correctly. During one of these sessions I started to notice that while I was instructing my friend, and he was performing the Qi Gong, I would as I was giving instructions for specific Qi movement, very lightly repeat the movements within myself, these movements consisting of Qi and Yi. Though, doing this my Yi/intent was more with my friend as I was watching him to make sure he was doing things correctly. To my surprise I started to notice that when my intent would fall on one of his mistakes, my friend would correct this mistake without any signal from me. I specifically tried the same on several occasions and got the same results. I don’t think this sort of experience can be proven scientifically, especially in my case, I am just a beginner. It made me think though , that Qi/Yi can be moved from person to person, though this requires one to have a surplus of Qi & Yi. But I have also seen people go for Qi Gong therapy and be physically moved by the Qi Gong Master. Also during my training, when my Master was explaining how Qi moves in accordance with the eight internal energies, I think he may have done something similar to what is described above, to help me feel what each energies should feel like. Also (you may want to read my post in B.K.F. Fa Jing thread, though I did not include the info below there) when I got 'Fa Jinge'd', after the initial 'lift off' so to speak, I could feel as if I was being propelled further in the direction I was thrown, by a soft wave, which literally feels like a soft wave hitting you when you standing on the beach, except much softer but stronger.

Anyway this is what I've come across so far. So in my perspective I would not think that what is mentioned in B.K.F’s article is that bizarre, particularly when such phenomenon is going on between two apparently high level IMA’ists.

 

Back to the thread - I don't think an IMA UFC bout will ever happen for this simple reason:

If an IMA guy goes in and loses, the IMA crowd will always be able to say "he wasn't experienced enough/he didn't use the principles of IMA", and the only people who command real respect in the IMA world are grandmasters who are at least 60 years old.

The grandmasters have too much self respect to go into a competition like that, and even if they did, I think the EMA/MMA opponent would be a bit hesitant (and so would the sponsors) about trying to body tackle a 60yo and punch him repeatedly in the head.

 

Maybe if people started competing using IMA then they wouldn't have to train for 50 years to get some respect?

 

lol

I think you're missing the point.
A lot of traditional MAs are more than just fighting systems, they are also a means for self cultivation. Part of that being the avoidance of conflict.
The spiritual/philosophical side of these arts (and I am referring to both external and internal) changes how the person feels about fighting.

By starting to train in an art which does not compete in this way (UFC etc) you will not be driven towards it. There are other arts out there that are more geared towards UFC and its ilk. I realise that this is a generalisation, but the majority of these guys seem to be MMAists.

How about having and over 60 UFC?
actually, I doubt the IMA 'masters' would go for that either as they would not feel the need to prove themselves.

 

I don't know about 60 year olds competing in MMA. However, Dan Severn is over 50 I think he still actively competes (and wins). Randy Couture is 41, and I think there are some more up there in that range. They aren't really old or anything, but that's proof that you don't have to be twenty in order to compete.

What style you study doesn't completely change your personality. I've heard of IMA 'masters' who compete in full contact Lei Tai fights in China. You just don't see any competing on a high level against people who study other arts (as in other styles besides CMA).

 

And Couture even shows that his experience and age, can be advantageous, over younger opponents. He did however, have a few problems with bigger opponents, but he was kicking Ricco's ass for the first 2 rounds, and Ricco's elbow to the eyeball victory was cheap. Barnett however, beat Couture. Who saw Barnett vs. Couture?

 

Dan Severn has won six of his eleven matches this year alone. He sure isn't letting age slow him down.

 

Well, actually an IMA guy did compete in one of the early UFC's. Thomas Ramirez, mid 40's and 300+ pounds, said that the UFC was afraid to allow "real kung-fu" into their matches. Advertising himself as a red sash in pa kua chang (sic), he claimed over 300 wins in no rules full contact matches in Puerto Rico and that his favourite technique was "slamming." He promptly got ko'd with a weak Don Frye jab in about 5 seconds. Was he any good? Couldn't tell, the fight didn't last long enough.

A former teacher of mine who was the grand daughter of Wang Ziping, told me that internal arts were for health and external arts were for fighting. She taught both. I asked about the tournaments in China which were won by internal artists and she said that the external artists always won but that the rich internal guys had the foreign students who wrote the books so they came off as the winner.

Could IMA do well in mma events? I honestly can't think of one IMA player I know or have heard of, who can use nothing but IMA techniques to do well in that type of event. It might not be the art, but instead the type of students that they attract.

 

Zillabilla, I don't actually see your personal incident as too bizarre. My explanation (if you really want one) is that during the practice of your qigong, your friend and you acheived a high degree of concentration and awareness and so your friend were able to pick up very subtle muscular movement or "cues" from you and corrected his movement accordingly. You know, something along those lines. I just don't believe people can be moved by "qi" and I think it is unnecessary to "mystify" your master.

OK back to our topic. I just hate to see IMA going the pathway that it is leading now. That it is beyond all competitions and testing of real skills. That is just complete non-sense and plain bad excuses to me. IMA is no difference to other MA apart from a slight difference in philosophy, its approach to training and power generation. Just less than a century ago, no self-respecting IMAist would turn down the chance to test his skills. And as I said before, the 3 landmark full contact competitions held before the WWII were filled with winners doing IMA.