Fingers are pretty easy to break. Cheek bones also. And collar bones. And toes. And noses. And ribs. Dislocation is pretty easy as well. And joints are easy to hurt. And ankles. And wrists.
Yes I honestly am. Check the UFC website for the rules if you still dont beleive me. There are no helmets in MMA. I'm suprised you are interested in martial arts and dont know this. There are mouth gaurds...so what? Ninjitsu has grappling and submissions too, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. You are also still having trouble understanding what a tap means in grappling. People in grappling tap to stop something horrible from happening. How is someone going to 'strike again' when i break their arm or choke them out? And if i do decide to be nice and let them up unharmed, whats stopping me from tossing them down again and finishing the job if they want round 2?
Zyphial I've skimmed your other posts and I'm getting the impression you are also a philosophy major. I'm guessing sophmore year? If this is true, please stop giving us a bad name. I mention my major and everyone assumes im more worried about the structure of an argument than the facts involved.
I'll just say that Ninjitsu is not the art of assassination. Shonobi learned all kinds of fighting and survival skills. I don't know what modern NJ is like, but from what people here have said, it sounds similar to jujitsu. If you're looking for a sport style, go with BJJ or judo. Grappling = sports style. If you're looking for self defence or a fighting system, ignore anyone who tries to sell grappling to you.
Self defence should have an element of groundfighting so you can at least get back to your feet quickly in the event of finding yourself on the ground.
From what i know ninjutsu contain different schools, one of them is taijutsu, which i heard is very similiar to jujutsu. both contain locks, holds and throws.
I know this is an old debate, but even without studying either martial art you can easily gather that ninjutsu and jujutsu must be similar. Think about it. People claim that ninjutsu was invented partially to defend against samurai. Assuming that is true, why is no one asking about who samurai had to defend themselves against? Well, gee, OBVIOUSLY samurai ALSO had to learn how to defend against samurai, because obviously there were different feudal lords and provinces, etc. So, not only is it utterly reasonable to assume the two are related because of spatial and temporal proximity during their origins, but also because both had to deal with the same problems! Granted, ninjutsu had additional techniques not required for samurai (I would imagine all the stealth, espionage, etc), but even so, there must have been significant intermixing. Based upon what I have read in history and based upon what I have seen in video demonstrations, I would consider ninjutsu to be a specialized version of jujutsu, or a martial concept that includes large portions of jujutsu in its hand to hand combat training. Either way, ninjutsu belongs as a unique limb on the much larger jujutsu tree, as far as I can tell.
Thats pretty much true, and considering that all of the "ninjutsu" organizations that you find (Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinenkan) all contain jujutsu ryu in them... well.. theres the rest of the tree.
You guys do realise that many of the samurai clans used ninja to work for them.This ninja were created to fight samurai is not true ninja were hired to fight for the samurai in areas that the samurai tended not to go i..e. disguise and espionage.Example if a warlord was bulding a castle a rival would hire ninja to pose as workers to get a plan of the castle.Many ocassions ninja worked alongside and for samurai. The Takeda and Yagyu are two clans that immediately spring to mind that used ninja as did Tokugawa Ieyasu.In some samurai battles there were regiments of ninja used. Indeed some histories state that the ninja themselves were not such a great secret..it was their techniques that were secret like any other spies. Tai jutsu and jujutsu are almost interchangable. regards koyo
I wonder if how much the secrecy of their techniques was the cause for they're hiring as much as how dishonorable the things that they did were viewed was. Of course, clearly they were good at what they did, but I imagine that by the Tokogawa times, a lot of their secrets were probably known to military personnel. From what I read, the things they actually did were frowned upon. I mean, seriously, hiding your face, sneaking up on people, etc hardly seems as "honorable" as the bravery of the samurai, and so forth. So maybe they were often hired because the samurai didn't want to be directly responsible for the "dirty work?"
From my understanding, Samurai were bound by an honour code. So ninja clans were hired for espionage, assassination and what-not. Things that the samurai couldn't do for 'moral' reasons. And FIGHTING was the least-valuable skill they actually had in their arsenal (not to discredit their fighting prowess-- they were also amazingly conditioned.) The idea was to do what you had to do without getting caught. If you were a great fighter, but sucked at stealth and concealing who you are, you would be a pretty lousy ninja. That is, unless if you can take on entire armies by yourself. :hat: also: nicerebound, I can't help get the feeling that you're either: a) 12 or; b) never trained a day in your life at a reputable school. That's not meant as a flame. That's the honest impression you give me. Either one would be an acceptable answer and would explain why you act the way you are. I also find it hard to believe one could have a degree in anything within the science fields and make spelling mistakes so frequently, especially with the 'preview post' button being in such a handy location. As far as 'newbie MMA player' (because it is a sport, after all) vs. master in ANYTHING, I would most definitely bet on the master. I also imagine someone who trains MMA would have an advantage on someone else who trains a specific art for the same amount of time, hours per week, etc. in the BEGINNING, but after a certain point the 'specialist' would gain the upper-hand. I'm talking about a real fight. In a bar/alley/etc. Not in any cage or ring with a ref. or bell. And regarding 'pressure points'-- It appears you have never been hit in one with any level of force. Sure, those athletes can be amazingly well conditioned. Abs that can crush rocks! But just because they do 1000 sit-ups a day doesn't improve-- perse. The nerve cluster below the arm-pits ability to 'take a hit.' The only time I've ever seen anyone actually train the vital-points on the body would be Chinese Qigong. -Kraen
oooh get you, do you have a handbag??? as in tested, you just mean against an MMA fighter right? Its funny how bad an attidue you have, i spent some time with Paul Taylor in the uk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Taylor_(fighter) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-Lytle-in-Birmingham-Mixed-Martial-Arts.html taking to him he never beratted other martial arts and he was quite happy to sit and have a coffee and talk about the differences, as a fighter he had a good attitude about other arts, he was happy to say Nijutsu wasnt for him but then what he had heard was good, i suppose its when people limit there knowledge and intelegence they end up as interesting as an empty cardboard box....
not just the armpit area, this sheet of nerves come out from under the lats and cross the chest, exposure here is good, i know some good controlling techniques for this region and i love a bit of skin tearing for added satisfaction....
Iv only ever done 1 lesson in Jujustu, mainly because of the time the class was on, or i would be going to it. But i do now train in bujinkan budo taijutsu. I can say that it is for me, nobody can say that a martial art is rubbish unless they have tried it or atleast researched it. But i think jujutsu and 'ninjutsu' would easily go hand in hand together if someone was training in both
Seeing that someone has taken the stake out of this thread vampire.... Many koryu bujutsu ryuha both extant and no longer extant had "ninjutsu" in their school's curricula. Older schools did not actually specialize in merely one discipline, they taught many disciplines that a bushi would need to be of use to a feudal domain. These skill sets included swordsmanship, spearmanship, halberdry, archery, gunnery, field & fortification strategy, and sometimes, depending on the school, special field operations (Read Ninjutsu). Ninjutsu is a seperate discipline from what is generically known as jûjutsu (which depending on the ryuha had different terms, such as kumi-uchi, kogusoku, koshi no mawari, taijutsu, yawara, torite, etc.) Jûjutsu was/is a generic umbrella term for mainland Japanese unarmed combat methods. Ninjutsu was a seperate discipline or area of study where certain specific skill sets were learned and applied (e.g. stealth, cover & concealment, espionage, survival skills, escape & evasion methods, scouting methods, surveillance, etc.) These skills were taught in koryu bujutsu ryuha alongside other more familiar disciplines. Some of these ryuha were Otome-ryu (御留流) An otome-ryu was a bujutsu ryuha that was specifically sponsored and reserved for the retainers of a specific domain. Sometimes a domain would have more than one ryuha as Otome-ryu. (e.g. Shingetsu Muso Yanagi-ryu was the Otome-ryu for the Nabeshima-han. Sosuishi-ryu & Isejitoku Tenshin-ryu were both otome-ryu for the Kuroda-han.) Which meant that a certain few bushi (Samurai), alongside their normal budo/bugei training, would also be allowed to train and qualify in this school. Even though some ryuha may have been famous for their ninjutsu, that doesn't necessarily mean that they had a jûjutsu syllabus in their curriculum. It is a modern misconception to think that ninjutsu is a multli-discipline art containing sword, spear, unarmed combat, etc. This phenomenon has come about due to certain organizations like the Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinenkan & Myofu-an teaching a large curriculum, comprised of teachings from several different ryuha. This doesn't mean that the entire curriculum in those organizations are to be considered ninjutsu. The majority of the ryuha in these organisations teach either weapons, unarmed combat or both. If I remember correctly, only two of the nine schools in the Bujinkan are classified as having ninjutsu in their curriculum. There was a time when people in the Bujinkan trained like everyone else in koryu - They didn't wear black, they trained in white keikogi & black hakama. That all changed in the late 1970's & early 1980's Within koryu bujutsu schools, you'll find ryuha like Tatsumi-ryu, Yagyu-ryu & Sosuishi-ryu having ninjutsu in their curriculum. These are samurai bujutsu schools. Most of the armed & unarmed disciplines in what people think of as "ninjutsu" are samurai bujutsu schools too.Tatsumi-ryu is famous as a sword school, yet teaches bo, naginata, yari, shuriken, jûjutsu & monomi (ninjutsu) in it's catalogue of techniques. Other ryuha are very similar to this. Sorry for the long post, but certain misconceptions have to be addressed.
Three schools; Togakure-ryū Gyokushin-ryū Kumogakure-ryū Are seen as being the "Ninja" schools (sorry for using the N word ) but as I understand it there is a close link between Togakure-ryū Gyokko-ryū and Kotō-ryū, these two latter ryu forming the base of the Togakure-ryū unarmed techniques. What you mean with structure? Sorry couldn't resist. Am I right in thinking/remembering that Takenouchi ryu also has scouting techniques which fall under the Ninjutsu umbrella?
blimey, could you imagine if we have a proper grading structure? half the yanks would crap themselves!!! mind you it might get rid of Dick Severence and his standing around like a loser in the hombu all day...
