Wouldn't entirely surprise me, which is why I've used the word "legitimate" a lot. I suspect that at least some ninjutsu schools are modified karate for the same reason.
Sources? I'd argue against the fact that ninjutsu was tailored to defeating a samurai. Even if it was, they would have to include most kenjutsu and jujutsu techniques in their repetoire to be able to learn to counter them. In which case ninjutsu would have just as much versatility as jujutsu. Besides, an art which taught you to defend against a samurai would still be a great survival art if you were attacked by someone unarmed. All in all, if you take away the archaic bits of both arts, you are left with the taijutsu or both, which are very similar (one being based on the other hasn't been ruled out as a possibility as far as I'm aware) If you are going to make a claim like that, you should back it up. Just saying "you're wrong" isn't going to cut it. several people have made a claim that ninjutsu was about survival, not just countering samurai, which is much more likely than the "fancy" that ninja were all anti-samurai weapons. I imagine that like any other culture in history they had a method of survival, which would have been ninjutsu just as much as the anti-samurai techniques. Please do, sources are always useful when making arguments that seem to go against the opinions of all the legitimate ninjutsu students I've ever spoken to.
Well I'll post some links tomorrow but right now I've got to go to my Jujistsu class.... Ironic No? also we are going way off topic...Original Question: Which is more effective, well lets just blame Paladin for a non-specific question with no real anwser, and call it quits eh?
Well, the ninjutsu I do is a combination of 9 schools. 6 of which were samurai arts. Also, just because it works against samurai doesn't mean it was designed to only battle the Samurai. It was designed for self-defense and preservation. The ninjas just happened to fight the samurai a lot due to the samurai trying to oppress them. It would work just as well against a non-samurai warrior or just a non-warrior. It's designed to keep you alive, whether it be against a samurai or not. A lot of what they did was opposite the samurai but that's just because they were different groups of people. They didn't follow bushido because they valued life more than honor. This allowed them to use stealth(one of the best ways to avoid a conflict), ranged weapons(Most samurai did not like to use ranged weapons because they thought it to be less honorable than using a sword in face to face combat), and tactics that samurai were not used to, thus it worked against them. They were a counter-culture to the samurai but the art works against anyone not just samurai, that's my point. Ninjutsu wasn't really created either, it wasn't even called that until much later. It kind of evolved. Ninjutsu emerged as a method to protect the people of the counter-culture to the samurai. Samurai did not like the ninja to be allowed to have their own sub-culture and they tried to eliminate them, leading to many fights against the samurai. But ninjutsu was not just to defend vs. samurai, although that was one purpose.
after reading all your posts i have decided to go to jujitsu for a few months and then ninjitsu to see the difference. Then continue with the style that fits me best and thank you guys for you posts, they really helped. P.S. i do NOT want to do BJJ.
Nice, for real, the debate can go on forever, and the truth is you just got to experiment. Whatever works for YOU is the best..... but I aprove of your choice. Peace
now the hard job is to find a club here in Budapest, not many english ones that i know of. anyway. i might get lucky and find one.
Well I found a ninjutsu dojo in Budapest if you still want to do that, but the sites not in english so I don't know if that helps you. It's a bujinkan affiliated dojo though so it's legit. http://seijin.bujinkan.hu/ The picture looks like they know what they are doing, that's a proper sword stance(forget the name). I personally like to hold my hands closer to my head but that's me. Turns out the picture changes on refresh, the sword one is one of the few they have. Another shows gun defence so that is good to see, practical modern day defenses incorporated as well as traditional weapon training. Looked through a couple pages and saw the good key words. Budo Taijutsu, Masaaki Hatsumi, Ninpo. Didn't see a price, but I only skimmed through it and I can't read hungarian. Taught by a 3rd Dan apparently, not bad, but not really good either compared to what else I've seen(I learn from a 12th dan) but it is hungary . I can't speak for that particular person though, he may be very, very talented. :edit: I just found the picture section of the dojo and saw several other techniques, which looked to be done properly(as best as you can tell from photographs). So if you can't find a jujutsu dojo or on the chance you want to study ninjutsu instead/first, this seems to be a good place to go. I did a quick google search for jujutsu dojos in Budapest but no luck. All I see are several Aikido dojos. Sorry I can't find anything more useful on that front. I am obviously better at finding ninjutsu related things than jujutsu related things. Good luck in your search.
thanks, but the problem is that i want a club where they speak english, cuz as i think u noticed, i'm not hungarian.
Yes, I noticed. They might speak english there, call and ask. I'm sure one of the students speaks english, well I at least hope they do. If not, you may just have to wait until you get to a place that has more accessable MA or learn to speak hungarian . It is hungary though, so you might not find english anything. You won't need to do much talking any way, it's basically just trying to imitate what they do the best that you can. See if you can work something out. If you have any questions or problems, just ask. I'd be glad to help with what I can.
what do u think abou this one http://www.bujinkanhungary.com/index1.html totaly english. looks like a pretty cool club.
Looks good, surprised it wasn't on winjutsu.com(where I found the other one). Try it out, looks like a real good place too. Looks like you found your dojo. E-mail them and check it out.
Ninjitsu is for delusional super nerds, japanese ju jitsu (JJJ) is for regular nerds that wanna get into shape, brazilian jiu jitsu (bjj) if for fighters. Each style has its merits so its mostly about picking the system thats right for you. You should choose ninjitsu if you have trouble running long distances, beleive in chi and the touch of death, and spend most of your time on your computer. Choose JJJ if you consider yourself an average athlete, enjoy moderate excercise and most importantly, if you like lots of structure and authority. Now, if you are athletic, competitive, coordinated, and willing to deal with alot of sweat and pain, then choose BJJ. Also, choose BJJ if you actually want to win fights.
In answer to the OP i know of an instructor who teaches BOTH ninjutsu and jujutsu; his substyles of both are almost identical but the big difference is the amount of focus on weapons in ninjutsu. Ninjutsu in his styles are more jujutsu with weapon training and weapon evading.
"LOL that is one of the more ridiculous comments i've read here on MAP. congratulations." Thanks I'll admit i dont know too much about ninjitsu, but I've seen some of the techniques and I've got some well founded doubts about its practical application. Also, I have to reinforce my last point. If you want to win fights ninjitsu and JJJ aren't the way to go.
But your point isn't a valid point. Although i have to admit that from what i have seen of ninjutsu i couldn't say i would be comfortable using it in any form of real situation doesn't mean there isn't a substyle more suited to it. Also i forget the exact amount but there are A LOT of different substyles of jujutsu around each focusing on different aspects. Remember just because an art is flavour of the month doesn't mean its the best
Please refrain from just posting completely unsubstantiated generalisations, particularly when you yourself admit a couple of posts later that at least one of these arts you know very little about! As many people have already said, with a good legitimate instructor any mainstream martial art can be effective, whether its ninjitsu, JJJ or BJJ. To say any of them is inherently going to be weaker or stronger is making an assumption that could easily turn out to be completely wrong. Stereotyping the kind of student you will find at each is just as foolish, and in the case of the "delusional super nerds" comment I imagine quite insulting.
