Has anyone studying this style used it to defend themselves or sparred with some one who resisted your techniques?I ask because there is a NGA dojo near me.
I am currently studying NGA. I am currently a Ni-kyu in the testing process for my I-kyu. I am just entering my 5th year of training. I also train outside the dojo with 4-5 guys who have an eclectic background (about once a month for me while the others are usually there most sundays for 3 hours). One participant is a Karate (Isshin-ryu) shodan and has extensive experience with Brazilian JJ (10 years I believe...I just don't know his belt level there and don't want to misspeak), one is a professional bouncer with 4 years experience in To Shin Do Ninjitsu and is at my level of NGA. Others are NGA trained at various levels. Our Sunday training is as "real world" as we can make it without having too high a risk of injury. That is not so say that we don't see our share of inadvertant shiners and contusions however. As I stated, one of the participants is a bouncer while another is a former state prison guard and the karate/BJJ man is a former MMA fighter. I can say without any hesitation that NGA is a very effective defensive system for most of the Pseudo-realworld situations i encounter in this training. I feel that this is due to NGA's ability to provide both hard/enter in/attack the attack defenses as well as the more traditional soft/blend with the energy techniques seen in Hombu. NGA is also more of a "linear" aikido style that incorporates strikes (both kicks and hand/fist/elbow varieties) not just as atemi but as a primary counter to an attack. Also, unlike Hombu (or at least my understanding of it) we train for the occasional situation where being offensive is necessary (as an option when attack is iminent or to disengage someone who is in the process of assaulting another etc.) A number of our primary techniques are traditional Judo in origin and we do train on the ground on occasion although lack of significant experience in the latter is what I view as NGAs primary weakness especially if the commonly held JJ testiment that most street fights "go to the ground" is true. Another "real world" issue that is covered frequently in my NGA training (more so at more advanced belt levels) is how to defend changes in attack...what do you do when you have an attackers wrist and are wanting to perform a wrist throw only to have the attacker pull his/her hand/arm back negating the first intended technique. One other area where it has also shown to be quite effective is in weapon disarmament. That is not to say that we would be terribly effective in defending a knife attack from someone with Cali/Escrima or advanced military training (you fight someone who knows how to wield a knife, you're probably going to get cut) it does seem pretty effective against more "standard" attacks I hope this description has been helpful. Like any other art, NGA is not perfect for everyone/every situation. What I do know is that it IS a great art for ME!
Sounds pretty much how we train. Good to hear there are some hard core aikidoka out there. regards koyo
NGA Thanks for the info,i was told recently that this style is not realistic for self defense and dosen`t offer a work out.Mostly due to the fact that your opponent isn`t trying to resist your moves.And theres no physical benift because your moving so slowly.So you`re the first person that actually takes nga and had some thing positive to say.Thank you
You'll hear this often as a blanket statement about Aikido in general due to the unfortunate fact that most of the schools you'll run across don't train as the above two posters do, but as has been described to you by others. Sounds like you have a good opportunity,grab it.And this poster is not affiliated with nor experienced in any branch of Aikido.
PTGUITARGUY Check out the martial arts of aikido threads here on MAP. Your input would be most welcome. regards koyo
Generalizations are always dangerous...one mans work out is another mans walk in the park. Depends on the day actually. We go through a calesthentic routine every class with some more difficult than others. Some days I am instructed by my sensei to pair up with and help a newbie which is often a lot of stance or basic hand position instruction or to perform our kata which we call "classical techniques" all of which are quite anaerobic. Sometimes we get a more advanced group of mudansha or more than one yudansha which often allows us to spend a bit more time in attack lines and randori which can be aerobic to the point of near vomiting! I feel that the criticism regarding lack of resistance of the uke in aikido (at least in my variant) is valid in the early stages of training. However, I have found that as we get more advanced, the sensei puts us in more "advanced" real world type situations...hey, you have to walk before you can run. I am also a physical therapist and I know from my motor control training that 1. it takes 10-15,000 repetitions to "pattern" a movement so that it can be brought out without having to think about it and 2. when learning a new motor skill, one breaks down the movement into simpler components, "putting" it all together" once all of the more elemental components are being performed correctly. I do know that only in the last year do I feel that my technique has progressed to the point where I can now perfrom effectively in a free form, "real world" manner In my limited and humble experience, I have found that the "hard" defensive techniques are, by and large, easier to apply in an effective manner earlier in my training (remember, we get both hard and soft defenses in NGA). This IS NOT to imply that I feel hard defenses are more or less effective than soft or that anyone learning a hard, striking art has it easier. This is merely a statement of what I have found in my training with NGA. I wonder if it just takes more time for most to become efficient enough in soft technique to make it effective "on the street"? I don't have an answer to that last thought and would welcome respectful commentary. Lastly, I know that one can never truly tell whether an art is a good fit for them until they have tried it. In my dojo, we have no contracts or testing fees. One can sign up and try it for $65 and a nominal charge for a gi (which is usable in any art training). What do you have to lose?
It has been my experience that "hard" solid basics must be the fundamentals of your training. I have seen guys with fifteen years soft training and to be brutaly frank no effective technique at all. If you beat something that is hard it can become flexible if you beat something that is soft......... If soft technique is effective it is because of the years of hard training that preceeded it. regards koyo
One last point regarding the "street" effectiveness of NGA. Our current Shihan was a police officer both early and later in his life and had been the primary self defense instructor for 2 county law enforcement academies before he moved from the area due to family health issues. His ara-waza is beautifully smooth and extremely aggressive...i would not want to be on the recieving end of it in a dojo with padded floors much less in the real world!
Very well said, sensei. It's tough to blend with an attack well when ones block of a strike was so soft that it's energy found it's intended target and has knocked you on your ass. Our very first instructions in NGA are in strikes and blocks. We don't get tested on our ability to blend until Ni-dan! I will remember your wise words in my training. "Peace when possible...may my sensei's good training afford me the ability to avoiding hurting you when it's not."
Part of ara waza is used when for whatever reason you cannot move freely and you hold your ground (chikara) "become hard" and execute the technique as fast as possible. Often you shall see the attacker bouncing of the defender. Crashing into an experienced aikidoka using chikara should be like hitting a tree. This solid centre comes from dedicated hard basic training.Saito shihan's arms felt like steel rods wrapped in cotton wool. As you say those same arms would cut directly through a weak defence. That is another area not often mentioned cutting directly through a block. regards koyo chikara in aiki ken (Derek is 6.4 and near tweny stone)
We do this type of defense training in our dojo on limited occasion...most probably due to the lack of overall experience in our dojo (i am guessing here) although, as you say, sensei, a good basis in hard technique is important early on. I do get quite a bit of hard defense training (a lot of "entering in" from a solid base [wedge and "oak tree" descriptors have been thrown around] during my mixed training sessions with the other martial artists I talked about in previous posts who are much more proficient than I in hard defenses. It doing a bit of reading, it seems that our style has some similarities with Yosheikan...we have a number of suwari-waza throws that are "95% judo" (per one of our occasional yudansha who is a 40 year judoka/sensei...currently he's 84 years old and is still hitting the mats with good uke waza!) as well as the karate style strikes. Thank you for taking time out of your busy day to share your wealth of knowledge with me. Za-rei to you sensei.
