Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by kempojosh, Feb 23, 2006.
And you done it very well
Yes and of those banned 2 were seperate individuals accused of being the same person. And even though they both tried pointing this out they got banned!
For those of you that are not familiar with ebudo. Ebudo require every poster to sign their post in with their real name, if that is unacceptable then you either don’t post or get banned. It is a rule that applies to everyone and you can guarantee that if you don’t sign your post you will be asked to do so. This rule is so that there is some ownership to what people post and no one can hide behind anonymity. This may or may not be something you agree with, but it is one the forums rules and is applied equally to everyone.
I'm not commenting on that. If that's ther rule then that's the rule, can't argue with it. What i think is highly unfair is that two people that i know being accussed of being the same person with multiple accounts! They arn't. One started Jitsu in a similer style but at a different uni about the same time as i did and the other took my first grading and is the brother of one of my first instructors.
I'm also not best pleased at the reply my first post there had and if far from the responce i'd associate with either MAP or PJ.
I’m not going to defend the use of calling someone’s rank illegitimate. As long as their promotion follows their individual organisations procedure it is legitimate; however it would be true to say I hold different levels of respect for different organisations ranks. Some organisations I am familiar have very shallow curriculums and gain high ranking easily, while others have much to learn and take some time to achieve ranks.
Basically I’m a live and let live sort of person, but I have experienced the feeling of being conned and wasting my time studying something I thought was legit, only to discover my teacher was a fraud and didn’t hold anywhere near the ranking he claimed. When this happens it effects the public’s perception of martial arts in general, we all get tared with the same brush. I can also understand people belonging to martial arts that where named as influences to KK’s style wanting to know more about his qualifications.
There is a guy in America that has a web site for his own style, Shorinji Te. He claims he is an urban warrior monk, wears a Hoi like ours, has recreated famous old Shorinji Kempo photo’s and lists Shorinji Kempo as a major influence in his style. By all accounts he is a good martial artist and a nice guy (although I would be worried about anyone walking around claiming to be an urbane warrior monk!); however what worries me is that students study with him and then form opinions on Shorinji Kempo because of how he has linked himself with us. If he was a high grade in Shorinji Kempo it would not be a problem because I at least would feel that if he demonstrated one of our techniques it would be done right, but because he lacks the correct knowledge and experience I do worry about the effects he has on us. This is compounded by him teaching our philosophy when once again he clearly does not understand it. It is because I have experienced these feelings in the past that I can understand what some of the budoka are feeling when they see KK’s web site or read his posts.
The reality is that if KK started off by saying that he has started his own style, didn’t try to draw links with other styles and that he was self-graded there would be little that anyone would have said. If someone doubted him they could simply go to his dojo and look for themselves because the only issue would be wether he was a good teacher and martial artist, as it is now there are more important issues on peoples minds.
I’ve been posting on ebudo for a number of years, more than MAP. I have always had responses from other posters, even when we have disagreed. This is not to say that you are lying, but I don’t think it is normally so unkind to new posters.
It is unfortunate that your friends were incorrectly labelled by others as being the same person. This has come about for much the same reason that many people are concerned with the way KK has marketed his art. The tar brush has come out and your friends have been painted with it. Just about anytime there is a debate about the credibility of a school and instructor there will be a number of defences against this person. In the past it has often come to light that there have been people masquerading as multiple people. Sometimes it has been the instructor masquerading as students. A good example of this was Rich Moonie. Just as the general public may wrongfully paint all martial artists as frauds when they get ripped of it appears that your friends have been wrongfully accused of being the same person.
If you would care to take a look at my web page, like it was mentioned on e-budo it was my instructor who had the "aikido" dan grade. That reference has been gone for 2 weeks.
I'll post something more on the actual debate, rather than the e-budo bashing when I have more time, but just as a note on the banning thing. I deliberately bated them to see if they were more interested in their rules, the reason behind their rules or the debate. Result they were more interested in the existence of their rules rather than the purpose behnd them.
I understand that they also deleted my post. Why? Ban me sure, I dared them to do it, but why censor my argument against them?
back to the legitimacy etc debate....which I think is a good one, by the way. I'll post more on this later when I have more time.
They deleted it as you were trolling. You dared them and called their bluff. You lost. So your post was deleted so not to invite others to make that may say X was banned for saying that.
What people forget is that places like e-budo and MAP are not democratic. I never voted any of the global mods into power on MAP. They were given that and we have to adhere to it. Either you play by the rules or you get booted. It is not a playground and to feel that you have a right. Basically you have no rights at all. The owners runs it and if they feel you are not playing by the rules, you go. Which is what happened to you.
So if you do not like the idea of a democratic system on BB MA sites like MAP, e-budo, Budoseek ETC, then go home and cry in your pillow. It is a totallitarian existance here. Conform or die. Post within the rules or get banned. It is black and white, not a grey area.
When multiple accounts are suspected then it's usually confirmed via an IP check if I remember a couple of accounts over there were showing the same IP.
They were and admitted to it. So unless duplicity is the normal within Kempo, then a ban is enforced.
KK is someone i'd consider a friend but i can see why people would be concerned about how he does stuff. But then i know him and can see his motives behind things. Yes to an extent there has been a 'look at this' reaction amongst some of us that know him, but no more so that anyother person would do.
Would it help the issue if i pointed out that Aegis has met Hard Cheese (even if he doesn't remember it) and i can dig out a picture that has me, him, her and another jitsuka in it?
One lives up in the Manchester area and one lives Stoke-on-Trent area . I don't profess to have an explanation as to why they have the same IP address but they arn't the same person.
Does this mean i can look forward to getting banned if someone else at my university that also lives on campus decides to register and post on the same threads as me? I access the web through the halls network so it's quite likely that my IP might be similer, if jnot the same as, many other people using the web.
Not being funny here it's a genuine question!
Why do some of you talk about doing a jitsu or such and such started jitsu?
Seems very odd to me?
And if you re-read the thread you'll see that they opened their second account after the first ones were banned. And as far as i can tell, which fairly certain, neither of them does Kempo.
Probably because a lot of them belong to an organisation called "The Jitsu Foundation" or TJF, which is a large British Jiu Jitsu association practicing a style derived from Shorinji Kan Jiu Jitsu.
They particularly have a lot of clubs on university campuses, which are usually called such and such Jitsu club.
As has been said multiple accounts are usually checked with an IP check. It is very unusual although not unheard of for two people to have the same IP.
If you've been banned just going and opening a second account isn't really going to do you much good as you're just tryijg to circumvent the rules. A better way to do it would be a very nice mail to an admin before you post again on the new account.
Hard Cheese said in her second post that she'd attempted to contact one of the admins in an attempt to prove that she is who she is. Which we'll not know if she wa successful or not. There's also the possibility that a lot of other people are now arbitrarily banned from the site because they might have the same IP.
This thread has drifted off topic.
Separate names with a comma.