New Judo Move

Discussion in 'Judo' started by inkpen, Feb 21, 2015.

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  1. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member


    At least 2 sambo players and 2 judoka who compete/have competed regularly have said it looks like what happens accidentally all the time and is just a side effect of grappling.. even people from sub-wrestling say similar.

    It's the boxing/karate/kung fu etc people that said it looks like a strike.

    Rugby is almost alwyas my go to example to try and illustrate a point so here goes...

    A guy sticks his hand out to do a hand off while running down the pitch. The guys fingers get in the opponenets eyes because of a size/height difference.
    Now is it a foul/penalty because the eyes were hit (it is), a yellow card (as there is s duty not to do dangerous moves), an accident (which it may well be) or a deliberate intent to injure(red card). The combination of the referee's view/position/perspective and other circumstances/evidence will determine what is awardedd. Sometimes you thinnk the call is fair, sometimes you think it is wrong. In general you accept the outcome and move on. That is not what has happened here because of whatever is going on between the OP and the local club/association. The strikers here are all looking at it from the point of view of the 'victim' but the person being judged (in rugby or judo) is allowed to try and keep the other person away/re-grip so what they are doing is not inherently a bad move/dangerous except as individual circumstances occur.

    More rambling eh :' D

  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    CACC and BJJ not "grapply" enough for you? ;)

    It just seems as if you are drawing very disctinct boundaries beyween who is a "grappler" and who is a "striker" in this thread as a means to reinforce your opinion, when the lines are probably far more blurred.
  3. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    :hat:Sorry David, I should have said perhaps those who were more focused on grappling and even more specifically jacket grappling. Grip fighting and taking grips is not really a big part (as much) in CACC and the rules of BJJ competition are very different than in Judo ne wazza so you don't see quite the same type of techniques/pressure (as the long times for matches etc versus the few seconds you are allowed to continue in judo).

    Better? :' D

  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, thanks for clearing up what you meant :)
  5. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I've done striking and grappling and if I watch mostly the top kid I can see a strike.
    If I watch mostly the bottom kid it just looks like grappling.
    I can put myself in their place and think about the grips, dynamic balance and the contradictory pressures involved. could be a deliberate strike (although saying he might train BJJ or kung fu or something is really clutching at straws).
    It could also be accidental and largely due to immaturity and lack of control.
    Much like an optical illusion I can flip-flop between different perceptions of it.

    So's no surprise the association has decided one way while the offended party has decided the other.
  6. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Are you trying to say that it's a white and gold dress?
  7. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    It's blue & black surely?
  8. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    I know i'd try my damnedest to turn something black and blue if i hear one more thing about that bloody dress.
  9. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    You mean white and gold, surely?
  10. inkpen

    inkpen Valued Member

    My wife reckons it's black & white but then what would she know-she has a mild form of colour-blindness.
    White & gold or blue & black - it is still a dress.
    Deliberate or accidental - it is still a strike. Intentional or incidental it is still a foul.
    Until I came on this forum I was 100% certain it was deliberate. Everybody I showed it to, and who were willing to opine, concurred. Although I remain convinced it was deliberate, I now can see there is a legitimate difference of opinion. The intention of the kid seems to be subjective. I acknowledge I am possibly a fraction bias as this is my son.

    As it is a strike (either deliberate or accidental) it should still be called that & the possible safety ramifications acknowledged, should it not?

    If JFA had opened this matter up for discussion as here on this forum, if they had said "we're unsure it was deliberate or accidental but it is dangerous and try to avoid such contact with the face" I would have been happy.
    They refused to re-examine. "incidental contact...." and they brooked no dissent. They stonewalled, tried to silence me, and in the end swept all my accusations against JFA officials under the carpet.

    The strike is but of minor importance. Restorative justice can now never happen. It is the manner in which Judo Federation Australia have handled my simple request for an independent review, and my subsequent taking to task those JFA administrators who a) tried to intimidate me & b) betrayed my confidence & c) ensured all my Complaints would not be investigated by attaching a cost to their investigation that was prohibitive.

    I know some here are accusing me of being a vindictive, bitter, twisted, passive/aggressive, over-zealous parent who is hell bent on revenge. I will have difficulty convincing them otherwise. I take their criticism on the chin & move on.

    JFA seems to me to think they are answerable & accountable to no-one & are a law unto themselves. It is in keeping with their proven track record when dealing with complainants & scandals - ie ignore, try to silence the criticism, and sweep the matter under the carpet.

    If what I'm saying is even marginally true, does it sit well with you guys who would not want, I'm sure, to see the sport wounded?

    At what point do I throw in the towel and say "this is just the way it is, this organization is too powerful to be held accountable, I will surely, as most so supportively inform me, never win?"
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
  11. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    One Judo organisation does not necessarily represent all other Judo organisations or their competitors. One incident of politics and silliness doesn't necessarily mean the sport as a whole is wounded, however unfair or ridiculous it might be.

    Honestly, I don't know. I think this is something you need to work out for yourself.

    But ask yourself logically, how far have your complaints taken you - what have you managed to achieve? What steps can you take if you want to pursue it further? Does pursuing the matter further actually bring any significant benefit to anybody or is the best you can possibly hope to get after exhausting time and money a pat on a back and a forced apology?
  12. inkpen

    inkpen Valued Member

    Judo federation are THE anointed/official administrators of judo in Oz.
    All the funding goes to them.

    So far I have tried to resolve this within judo. I have tried not to unnecessarily damage the sport. Even in this forum, which is still under the umbrella of MA, I am still hoping for JFA to descend from their high & mighty position & be reasonable. So while this forum is outside of judo it is still in MA. Most of you guys on here are I believe passionate about your chosen MA.

    What next for me? Next I will take this out of judo. These dishonourable administrators have decided that they will sweep the matter under the carpet. I am but a lone, powerless complainant who they think will back off. No worries - what they do not want is public exposure. They fear having their pants pulled down in public.

    Judo is investigating judo. There is no separation of powers. The perception of impartiality is absent. I have no confidence that a fair & just resolution & investigation will ever take place under Judo Federation Australia. Their track record is poor.

    I do not tire easily in my pursuit of justice. I believe I have right on my side and I will not be intimidated or silenced by Judo Federation Australia Inc.

    Carefully consider my cause. I do not claim to be a perfect individual. I am a flawed man. I have at times responded in anger in this matter. I have in 1 instance acted out of revenge/desire to hurt these mob as they have hurt my family. But overall I have acted with great restraint & with the best interests of judo at heart. If you think I am more right than wrong - back me. Support me. All pressure from folk like yourselves is powerful. Together we can achieve positive change. We can move mountains.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
  13. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    There comes a point though where you have to think a little differently though IMO. You openly regard yourself as a lone complainant even though you have seen other people agree with your view.

    But is this actually helping you or your son with Judo? Does this experience make either of you better judokas because you fight on for being wronged?
  14. inkpen

    inkpen Valued Member

    My son is oblivious to my stand. I am careful how I talk about this affair in front of him. He loves his judo & will continue with this sport for as long as he has the passion. I will never coerce him.

    Re; being a lone complainant. That is unfortunately fact. Only 2 have actively supported me (anonymously) in my struggle against JFA. JFA are powerful-they are the ruling elite. It does not pay to oppose them. You can easily find yourself on the outer.
  15. inkpen

    inkpen Valued Member

    A bloke from Croatia who has never done judo, if he thinks a cause is worthy of his support, can with others together effect change in a big way.

    A simple email from another country can help to put pressure on these mob. Exposure is what large organizations fear.

    If nothing else the mere positive energy transmitted from a positive supporting thought can help to change.

    A bloke from Croatia can help to promote positive change In Australian judo. He can with I & others move this mountain. My friend we can achieve the impossible for good. Join me-united we can be strong.

    Davor Suker was a magician with the ball in 90's!
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
  16. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    Yeah, i am really not that invested in the issue, i can see problems with the organization, sure, but i can't really sense much malevolence either, further more i don't really have much faith in the mission statement as it currently is.

    Also, i wasn't really clear about it, but i am not Croatian (actually a Kiwi), i just live here with my wife. (who is a Bosniak)
  17. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    On one hand I think it's great, that you let do your kid what he likes. I really do!

    But I also think, it's quite hypocritical to try and "tear down" the JFA, and at the same time be like: "Sure, my son still trains and (as I understood it) still goes to their competitions".

    You really don't think, you might just be overreacting, because your son got the hit to the head?
    After all, you do this because it started with what might have a normal accident in any contact sport during a kids competition. Where it's even more likely to happen, due to the age.
  18. inkpen

    inkpen Valued Member

    Back in Sept I was just on the point of letting the matter go & moving on when I received an email from the JFA National Secretary that was a crude and mischievous attempt to intimidate & silence me. In doing this they crossed a line. I consider this unacceptable. I refuse to bow to bullying tactics by Judo Federation Australia.

    I am not trying to tear down JFA. I want reform. I demand justice. Is this so unreasonable?

    Overreacting? Possibly. I concede that this all is due to my son getting deliberately struck to the face (my opinion) and this matter was ignored at the time, and subsequently excused & condoned & legitimised.
    My experiences with Judo Federation Australia in how they have handled this matter, with what started as a simple, polite request for a re-examination in light of an obvious conflict of interests, has caused me to dig a little into their recent history. The way they have handled other, recent malpractices & behaviour tallies with my experience.

    Somebody perhaps needs to make a stand. This has cost me a lot of money and time. Time I would much rather have spent with my wife & 2 beautiful boys. I have lost friends too. I am not standing up to this mob just for fun. It has cost me considerably.
    It is sad that a simple apology to my son early in the piece would have sufficed to resolve the matter. Now I am being portrayed as wanting to damage the sport because I will not bow to their bullying strategies.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
  19. rob0107

    rob0107 Valued Member

    Just out of interest, you've mentioned several times about them attempting to intimidate you via email. Could you post the email (removing any personal identifiers to maintain confidentiality) so we can see if this is a genuine act of intimidation, or a misinterpretation?

    But, ultimately, if this has cost you so much, and yet you have seemingly gained so little, would this not be the time to stop pursuing this matter and just letting it go?
  20. StripedPickles

    StripedPickles Valued Member

    Have your son take up cricket instead.
    At least then you can pick up your bat and ball and go home when you don't like the call.
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