법 tells us the sound of the word, 法 gives us the meaning of the word. A quick look in google translate of 法 gives us: http://www.google.nl/dictionary?source=translation&hl=en&q=法&langpair=zh|en So we have five meaning for it. 1. the law 2. a method; a way 3. a model 4. the Frank 5. France; French It is obvious that meaning 4 and 5 have nothing to do with it. Since the MYDBTJ has nothing to do with law either, we can forget about number 1 as well. So we have to choose between number 2 and 3. But do we really have to choose? In our context does it really matter if we pick 2 or 3? A model for boxing, a method for boxing, a way to box ... they all kinda mean the same. Right? So translating Gwonbeop (write Kwonbop or Gwonbeop, lets not start mixing different methods for romanization) as 'boxing method' (where boxing can be taken very broadly, because we also use our feet) is okay. The word 'beop' does not refer to the pictures. It doesn't mean that every picture stands for a method. True, you can put all the pictures in a row and voila you have the form in front of you, there movements in between pictures. Usually the picture will highlight a certain point in a movement. Take for example these twelve pictures in which Myung Jae-nam demonstrates the twelve breathing techniques of Hankido: http://www.hapkido.nl/content/1843/Cheon_Gi_Beop.html If you don't know these techniques, the pictures won't make any sense. If however, you have actually learned these techniques the pictures will be a reference.
Hello JD Sorry you did not understand my post to E M but I guess it is because you can't see the forrest for the trees and because you are argueing with yourself and a fencepost. I do hope that you can understand those concepts. I guess that your brain must be so big it is hard being logical because you try to look at both sides of the subject matter then do pro and con for each side to figure out which one you want to use POE'S law (analogy) without really understanding the intrinsic's value of the large picture (SIMPLE TERMS). Thanks for your lack of understanding. D2
I've been following this thread and enjoying it for the most part. To be honest, as a martial art/history teacher/someone who loves Korean culture, I love digging into this stuff and learning all the various things. I ma fascinated by Bruce's insights and history, Klass's insights and language touches, and the other posters references to various masters and ideas. However, even though I have lived in Korea, hold black belts in TKD and HKD and rubbed shoulders with various other KMA groups, I think that I am pretty represtative of a lot of people (and no disrespect to the posters here) who really doesn't care about the MYDBTJ book. I have a copy, have read it, and was suitably impressed. However, at this stage, I will probably never delve any further into it than that. I say this not to insult the scholarly work being done here but because as an instructor, I very rarely find students who really want to know much more than the very general history and who are happy to learn what is being offered and to work on that. So, for someone like me, if I were to explore deeper and look into the other ancient influences on KMA, it would be mostly for me alone. My students would probably accept whatever I told them and then want to get back to working on the basics and following the curriculum. For the most part, I generally tell students that TKD and HKD are Korean arts that have developed into uniquely Korean Arts from Japanese styles and a mish-mash of Chinese and native Korean styles, adequately flavored by Nationalism, truth-stretching, and a desire to spread something positive from Korea. When students ask about Kook Sool Won and/or GM In Sun Seo (we belong to the Hanminjok Hapkido Association as well), I tell them that it is a mix of Chinese influences with Hapkido and native arts... blended and processed to make a uniquely Korean art aimed at maintaining and developing Korean martial traditions. For most students, that's enough. OK, that said, please keep digging and sharing because I really love to read this stuff!!!!!
Thank you, Mr. Morrison. :bow1: That's it in a nutshell, and I doubt anyone could state it better than you just did. Having said that, let's let it sink in by dwelling on it for a bit... EDIT: Oh, yeah, let's keep digging and sharing because I really love this stuff, too!
Well..... I guessd that's it, folks. I'll have to contact Moosey or somebody and have them lock the thread. Thanks for sharing, Thomas. I think I'll forget this foolishness and see what the kids in the knitting classes are doing. OK.... but all kidding asdie, thanks for the "moral support". From my own POV I veiw a project like this as contributing to the Korean nationalist fervor if only from a more obscure point. The Korean people have a lot to be proud of and probably a lot to be embarrassed about when it comes to their history. Hopefully, this project will come in on the former rather than the latter side. That said, Folks, I have some good news......and some bad news..... The bad news is that I was scanning the copy of the Boxing Canon (see: QI Ji-guang; Chapter 14) and have found that I am missing two pages. I'm not sure how that happened but if you had ever seen my office you would not be wondering for long. In fact you'd probably wonder how I found ANYTHING in this s***-hole. I guess thats one more reason to get these materials out where people can see them, and not in piles on various chairs, cabinets and shelving, yes? Now for the Good News...... I went ahead and published what I had anyhow . I would rather get the material out there so people can see it, than keep waiting for everything to be "just so". I promise that as soon as I can find a reasonable replacement for the two pages, I'll put it out there. To view the KWON BEOP materials I have modified the website. (see: http://www.midwesthapkido.com/ There is now a button on the Home Page identified as KWON BEOP. I'm not sure what I am going to do about materials I am posting for other projects. Guess I'll cross that bridge after I ford this river......as it were. Please don't be put off by the "under construction"---it just means that I have not added commentary to explain things to folks who might visit the website and NOT know what the heck this is all about. Best Wishes, Bruce
I don't think any of my students has a lot of interest in my 'korean history'-hobby ;-) This is something I purely do for myself, just because I am interested. And then mostly just in the history for the sake of being interested in history. The art that I practice isn't exactly a traditional Korean martial art.
I wanted to post this in the other thread, but considered it more suited for here, as the 21st century thread seems to have taken a life of its own, and I'll refrain from posting in it unless I have something pertinent to add. I think it is important to understand that neither history nor martial arts can fit into a book, or a series of books, or volumes, or one big humongous book of 10,000 pages. It also seems to be the case that the farther back one wishes to search/research, the less there is. Books can only hold so much, are written and published by people. People themselves know only so much, and then to be able to write that down is limited. The best thing the martial arts has going for it is that so many people exist that were trained to such a high level of expertise, and that the training continues to this day. Impossible to fit it all in a book. Anyways, just my own thoughts.
Seriously.. You should think a little more before you post. The Bible is a classic example of documented historical events (regardless whether you believe in it or not) The Bugei Ryuha Daijiten is a classic example of completely the opposite of what you suggest regarding martial arts.
You weren't that specific in your post, and what you did say was vague to the point of nonsense. What I illustrated is there are good examples of comprehensive material written by men on those subjects you mentioned. IE History & Martial Arts.
Speaking for myself as a teacher, Dave, I know that the recognition of an institution such as History is in the living of it. What I mean is that our Western society is replete with maxims such as "He who ignores History is cursed to repeat it". Another maxim that comes to mind is that "the dead are only truly dead, when they are forgotten." History is a living institution of which the words and the books are only guidance. In Africa, there are villages where there is little literacy, and story-tellers called griots are dedicated to the remembering of things past. But without the living of that history these old men would be nothing but light entertainment. Here in the West.... in the US where I was born and raised..... the citizenry has raised discarding things to an art-form. In China, Korea and Japan they seem to be quickly picking-up on our habit. And, what I know is that when a person's body is cold , that individual seeks out something to warm that body. My thought is that when Adversity chills a person's soul down to the core its hard to imagine what values or ideals will be available to warm that spirit, history being cast aside as it often is. No real point; just some Saturday night musings. BTW: Important news flash for folks following doings on my website. I located a second copy of the Boxing Canon and was ablew to scan-in the missing pages such that Boxing Canon from General Qi's writings has all the pages and should correlate well with the English translation by Gyves. Best Wishes, Bruce
So comprehensive that it includes techniques, training methods, history and practical application such that a full embodyment of the art is contained in a comprehensive book and that one can literally learn the art without the need for a teacher, guide, sensei, master, grandmaster, sifu, mentor....it is that comprehensive down to the minute details? Come on, Dave, I don't beleive you truly feel that way. That is why I said exactly what I said in my post: The best thing the martial arts has going for it is that so many people exist that were trained to such a high level of expertise, and that the training continues to this day. Impossible to fit it all in a book.
Please don't patronise me with statements like this. You don't know me at all. Look. I very much doubt anyone would ever lay claim to have written the entire sum of knowledge they or anyone else possessed on a particular subject however; human nature such as it is, people will always have the desire to script things for either themselves or for future generations to enjoy. I REALLY don't understand what the point is in your earlier post, it's farcical, seriously. Sure that might be your point of view - and you’re entitled to it however, the method in which you communicate your opinions really lacks a degree of maturity, sorry if that sounds harsh but that's just the way it looks to me. Let's look at your opening statement: Here's my question.. "Important to understand..." for whom, you or for others? If you're attempting to address your point of view toward other people, you need to be qualifying WHY it's important to them (us) to understand this information and, potentially, be prepared to be challenged when other's share a different opinion to what YOU think is important for OTHER PEOPLE to understand. Let me put it another way: It isn't for you to proclaim anything is important for other people unless you're generally considered an expert in that particular field of knowledge. Now, on the other hand, when you do start proclaiming that it's important for people to understand something, but then that subject [so important to us] actually turns out to be just your opinion on something which, let's face it isn't rocket science to figure out, you come across as either arrogant, stupid or a combination of both. It's EXACTLY how you've behaved in the Solo Exercises thread in the Aikido style forum. I'm not suggesting for a second that your shouldn't express your opinion but, as I've asked you before, consider thinking about what you post before you hit that submit button.
Oh, sorry, Dave...in this thread we have (for the most part) been talking about some documented/undocumented history and a book called the Muye Dobo Tong Ji.
That may be the case, I haven't with due respect to you, taken the time to read the entire thread however; it doesn't change the content of my post(s) to you.
I think you run into the same thing in Bible discussions as often happens in MA discussions. The crux of the problem always seems to be about who sets the parameters within which the discussion is held. From what I know of the Bible's history it was apparently developed over time rather than "written". Different people include or exclude parts depending on their belief system. Buddhists have had some of the same problems in, say, recording the SUTRA-s, or identifying whether Contemplative or Literary Buddhism carries more weight. As a matter of fact I think we are about to run into one these "ideological cataracts" on the other thread. Time will tell. Best Wishes, Bruce
