muay thai - silat

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Kertas, May 20, 2006.

  1. Kertas

    Kertas Valued Member

    salam and hi to all non muslim people...

    i would just like to know if there are any silat guys who fought a mauy thai fighter and what the outcome is.

    i am particularly interested in knowing the loopholes in their system. i love anylising these things.

    terima kasih banyak
  2. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Just to reminding you Kertas, Its not the martial arts system make you better fighter, it help but its not guarranty and never was. It is the individual skills and will makes the better fighter.
  3. Zealot

    Zealot Valued Member

    I sparred with a muay thai fighter once.He was just playing around,but it seemed his tactic was to keep at a distance and try kicking rather than go in for elbows or knees.
    I found tha Silat has some effective moves which can be used to neutrallize a punch or kick and force the muay thai user to keep away,because it gives the Silat user an opening to counterstrike.
  4. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    The loopholes is not not get hit by a good Thai Fighter, cos those guys can HIT!

    Silat or no silat, if they connect, your going down, whoever you are.

    I have to 2nd what Tristan said, it's not necessarily the art, but the skill and determination of the person...

    To give you an answer that's more catered to what you were expecting, you'll find that most Thai Boxers only train against other Thai Boxers. This means that they primarily learn to defend against Thai-style attacks. In my limitied knowledge of Thai boxing, this is primarily striking, and not too much close up choking and grappling. With this in mind, you could try and get close enough (easier said than done!!!) and try and choke them out... but like I said, not an easy thing to do... without taking some serious licks on the way at least....
  5. tim_stl

    tim_stl Valued Member

    not really. muay thai also focuses on the 'clinch' where they train to outmaneuver their opponent and land some knees that will hopefully end the fight. there's one primary position they focus on that makes it easy to control the opponent, and the natural reactions to this position are what they want you to do. one leads your face right into a very strong knee, the other leaves you open to a strong knee to the side of the head.

    in my opinion, the major weakness of the style is that it's a sport. outside the confines of the rules, it's lacking. best thing to do is the same old advice of not playing their game.

  6. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    True. My knowledge of Thai Boxing is limited, as stated.

    If you had to break down the percentages in terms of striking vs clinching,what would your average ratio be?
  7. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    hi guys,i think i have a good vantage point on this one as i have been training silat for 18 years and muay thai for 23 years (feel old now!) muay thai is a very efficient sport,stripped down of all movements that have low percentage application in the ring,the majority of gyms in thailand concentrate on the kick,knee and elbow mainly then the fist,this is because the hand is gloved and the other weapons you can use the bone. The plam or grappling is a big part of modern day thai boxing and the boxers train that area everyday for a minumum 1 hour,the training methods of the weapons(kick,knee,elbow,punch) are very good and in my opinion that is the main reason for the efficiency of the thai boxer.
    Muay boran or old style boxing was quite different to modern day muay thai and actually has a feel and look of some styles of silat in some ways,muay boran has the locks/breaks chokes,takedowns and ground strikes that cant be used in the ring nowadays.the modern day muay thai boxers are proffesional fighters and not martial artists as such,so they would never compare their art against others,their interest is very much in putting food on the table!.
    there is silat in thailand and i actually trained at a gym last year that had a silat group using the gym( at different times to the boxers). the universities sometimes have silat groups,and there is more silat in the south of thailand than the north as far as im aware. it is very hard for me to compare 1 art to the other,or at laeast against each other as it would mean fighting myself! he he. i will say though that the modern day boxer will take some beating,they have a very high threshold to pain,are very conditioned,strong as bulls with great technique and timing,add that to the fact that they fight(apply their art) regularly,in some cases twice per week,having in lots of cases more than 200 fights,and that they have the main element of muay thai which is jai(heart) soo or fighting heart,they take some stopping regardless of what style you train. the weakness is ground work as they dont have it ,dont train it,and dont need it! as its a sport and proffesion,however i will say if you can take em down you would really have to know your ground work etc as they take some keeping down. i know that my silat training has improved over the years because of implementing some thai training methods,i enjoy both systems,styles.arts,sports,whatever we want to call them,my research over recent years has taken the path of seeing the similarities with muay boran and silat and im lucky to be flying to thailand tommorow to train in muay boran in the south. i hope this post may of been of interest to you guys,and that i havent waffled a bit to much!(feel i may have!) good training everybody :)
  8. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    Have a good trip Mate. If it's not too much trouble, give us a report when you get back. Cheers!
  9. tim_stl

    tim_stl Valued Member

    mine as well. i've only been training in it for less than a year.

    this would probably be a better question for fire cobra or the muay thai forum, but i would say it depends on the gym. if i had to guess, i would say it averages to about 30% of the time spent on the plam. i haven't seen fights in thailand, but from the ones in the u.s. and europe that i've seen, very little fight time is spent there.

  10. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    thanks ular sawa.i will do a report when i get back. tim stl,your correct of a 3 hour workout around 45min-1 hr is spent on clinch work,this is done 2x a day in most camps. :)
  11. mylifejr

    mylifejr New Member

    All martial arts system is nothing if you not practice more and hard work. It depends to the person. Although that martial art system is powerful than others, it still depends to you.. Like Orang Jawa said, "your skills".. ;)

    Just my 2 cents..
  12. Pekir

    Pekir Valued Member

    During an exam I attended a Aiki Jutsu sensei asked a graduate what was the most important part of his Katana. The student looked at his sword and couldn't find the easy answer. So his sensei helped him out. The answer was you yourself.

    In my opinion the practitionera abilities defines for the greater part the effectiveness of a martial art. A very fine martial art and a crap practitioner is worse than a streetsmart (street)fighter without martial arts training.

    Hormat Pekir
  13. Joe Aaron

    Joe Aaron New Member

    Training in both I must say there is no easy answer, but silat would be better in real combat (I mean when your fighting for your life) but muay thai would beat it with rules to say the persilat could not use gouges and chokes and strikes to vunerable points (eye,groin etc).
  14. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Joe,dont forget in a "real fight" nak muay(thai boxers) could and would eye gouge ,bite,head butt etc etc,i know i would! :)
  15. nasigoreng

    nasigoreng Valued Member

    I remember a muay thai - silat matchup in one of the early UFCs:

    The silat fighter crouched down to elicit a roundhouse kick to his head/body. when it came, he slipped and he got pushed into the corner and pounded.

    in a fair fight, i would probably bet money on a well-trained muaythai
    fighter against a silat fighter with equal attributes.

    But having said that, pencak silat to me means cheat
    strike the knees, groin, throat, and eyes... no rules
    this is why we don't see it being successful in tournament fighting.
  16. TheMightyMcClaw

    TheMightyMcClaw Dashing Space Pirate

    I don't really understand your point. If it was one of the early UFC's, than aside from the eye poking, all of those strikes would've been acceptable. Also, what would prevent the Thai boxer from throwing his knees and kicks to the groin, or his punches to the eyes and throat?
  17. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Absolutely nothing.

    There is a big underestimation of other arts in some silat circles under the blanket of "rules" and "sport". Thai Fighters are dangerous individuals who shouldn't be underestimated for 1 second.

    Silat CAN be used in contact sports, and there is much more to it than eye gouging, biting, etc... It has a comprehensive ground array and strikes, which can easily be ported onto the ring/mat/octagon...

    Bottom line is that excuses of how dangerous silat is, and how it cannot be used in the ring, simply don't cut it. The quicker we realise that, the sooner the art will get the recognition and acceptance it deserves...
  18. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    I agree wali,i teach a mma fighter (good scrapper) i showed him silat one day for fun,he loved it and said why dont we use these things in the cage! i said " coz you dont know em!" he he :)
  19. Viking

    Viking Valued Member

  20. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Hmmm, I don't know where this misconception that all we do is poke people in the eye comes from :confused:

    Conversely, we also have punches, elbows, knees & kicks :confused:

    Viking, most silat has techniques that are the same or similar to those in the clip. There is certainly a relationship between Muay Boran & Silat. After all, Thailand and Malaysia do share a border and there is Silat in southern Thailand....or is it Muslim Muay Boran ;) ?

    Wali, fully agree but does silat tend to attract 'the type' that aspires to be a UFC champion? Probably not. They'll most likely be down the MMA club & have never even heard of silat. There is also the question of numbers-there are relatively few persilats in the west to make it onto the UFC type scene in the first place.

    Also, many persilats have trained extensively in other arts, some to very high levels. Some are ex-military, law enforcement and doormen. So, maybe we're not quite as gullible as some might believe ;)

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