Mormonism

Learn to read - I said his origin story was more credible.

Smith was talking out of his ass, as were all those who "witnessed" it. Uri Geller, Sai Baba, Peter Popoff, W.E. Grant et al all can produce more than 11 witnesses to their alleged powers...and they have none.

Your standards of evidence are applaingly bad if that is enough for you, especially as everything else has pretty much been discredited

 

That alone is not enough for me no. Why do you think i haven't been baptized yet. I have had to investigate all the book of Mormon evidence and church history. There are some things you have to accept on faith, i believe it to be true for reason i've already mentioned.

 

Ironically that I can actually get...I might not agree with it because it is a personal measure of proof, but any belief based on faith is instantly unassailable by logic or argument.

This is why i get confused when people try and prove claims that are faith based - proving something is denying faith

 

Why?


And how do you determine which unproveable things your are going to accept on faith and which ones you won't?

Thanks,

 

Trust in the Lord. let him reveal the truth to you.

 

Which Lord do I need to trust?
They all seem a bit shifty.

 

Still waiting for that truth to be revealed...so far the only truth I've seen is that religion was created to either control people or rob them of their money. Maybe I just haven't found the right dirt mound with golden plates I can't read in it. I'm hopeing I find it soon, the price of gold is sky high.

 

Aren't you accepting the existence of the Lord on faith as well?

So, something you believe in will tell you what to believe in?

 

Aside from the fact that you wouldn't believe the amount of mentally disturbed "street preachers" there are out there I actually don't think Smith was insane. I just think he was a greedy con-man and saw a way how to scam an awful lot of money out of people using religion as the tool to do it. He wasn't the first and certainly wasn't the last to do so. There can be unethical people in positions of power among religions.

 

Trusting in God is one thing.

Trusting in a convicted trickster who falsified stories to elevate himself to minor deity for the sake of fame and fortune is another.

 

nope they were all lying, and he didnt fit the tablets in hat, he read them through a magic rock at the bottom of his hat. much more sane

 

To keep on that point for a second: David Koresh had 75 other people die with him in a siege after the ATF raided their compound. Out of those there were some who did not willingly want to stay but he had enough fanatics with him who chose to shoot and kill their own children then shoot themselves rather than be taken away from their prophet. There are some people who will believe what they want to hear is true. How else do you think 1-800 lines for psychics stay in business?

 

As we already discussed, he was never convicted of anything. be that as it may, let us examine the words of Christ. I want you to read the following scripture and get back to me. Matthew 23:34, Matthew 10:40-41, Matthew 7:15-20 Ephesians 2:19-20.
Now read 1 Corinthians 12:28-29, Ephesians 3:1-6 and Ephesians 4:11-14.
Then, bearing in mind Christ is the cornerstone of the Saints, you will see that Joseph Smith was an ordained Prophet of God.

 

Says the LDS - most others say he was. Given the LDS has a dog in the hunt I know which side I am on

Fixed that for you

 

Matthew 23:34
Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.

proves nothing because by that logic every prosecuted person can claim they are an ordained prophet

Matthew 10:40-41

He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. 41 He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.

Did you put this is just because it had the word prophet in? has nothing to do with life or crazy teachings of joseph smith

Corinthians 12:28-29
And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.

Again, it just mentions prophets. what does this have to do with joseph smith?


You know what ALL OF THESE are just mentions of prophets. If one of them said

"and there shall come a man called joseph smith , and he shall start up an offensive religion"

I would be more inclined to look into it, but alas...no

And trying to convince Atheists with bible passages is like trying to convince Vegetarians by offering them a steak...wont work.

And even for beleivers this argument is RUBBISH.

 

and actually do you mind if I ask.

What with the defence of mormonish and your user name

Is it because you REALLY like the twilight books and you found out that the author is a mormon , so you became one?

 

Interestingly it all depends on what one calls ''convicted of anything''. Perhaps that was because Joseph Smith avoided prosecution by moving. Certainly he was jailed in Missouri in 1838 for some sort of conviction(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith). A list of the women he was married to is listed in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith's_wives) which would amount to bigamy/polygamy which certainly would have been illegal and seemed to be part of the reason he was imprisoned (and soon after killed) - ''In 1844, disaffected Mormons published an exposé criticizing Smith's theocratic aspirations and his practice of polygamy. Three days later the Nauvoo City Council ordered the paper's destruction, precipitating a call to arms of non-Mormons who feared Smith's growing power. During the ensuing turmoil, Smith was imprisoned and killed in Carthage, Illinois.''

Now I know that there was a move to say that he didn't really commit polygamy but it seems unlikely that all of the 27 listed in the wikipedia article were lying.

Never really seen that much difference from other religious leaders who gain power, bed lots of women and then control the flock with admonitions that they have been chosen by god.. it does really sound familiar to so many others... (eg Bhagwan)

 

The fact that you used Matthew 7:15 is incredibly ironic. "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

As for prophets in Christianity generally they're not divine individuals but rather those that are inspired to share the word of God. By his own actions Smith is more a false prophet than anything as much was done to advance himself and against the teachings of the word of God as he essentially made up his own words to follow. Besides your own church basically elects individuals into a prophet position to lead in the church (Quorum of the Twelve Apostles) so apparently it's not too difficult to be considered a prophet in those terms.