miscellaneous

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by Blast, Dec 13, 2009.

  1. embra

    embra Valued Member

    I never really understood what some folk talked about with 'harmony' - kind of sounds like singing in a choir (my singing is appallingly bad - shotgun time.)

    With quite some effort, sweat and occassional tears, I can just about grasp 'blending' - tai-no-henko - or Awase as Iwama folk seem to call it.

    When I get sufficient concentration and motivation i.e. more than just rabbid typing, there are few points I will raise in the koyo's book thread. This is a book that should be published.
     
  2. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Awase is blending with someone's movement so that you can use it against them (no harmony there) or even pre-empt their movement by moving first or faster.

    Aiki wo hazu is a warning that says in combat at all cost avoid aiki "harmony"

    Aiki is how we would choose to live our lives NOT the manner in which we fight.
     
  3. Phantom Power

    Phantom Power Valued Member

    I can't remember where I read this nor is it a quote but apparently one of O'sensei's students (admiralty) wrote in his memoirs he was told "aiki is about getting someone to do what you want them to do" , which always makes me smile when I read aiki is love or aiki is harmony etc. Lets face it, Ueshiba was not known for harmonising when he was out proving his art against some pretty tough characters.
     
  4. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    That actually sums up a lot of what I saw when I practised Ki Aikido. I saw a lot of people being used and manipulated. I saw so many people being drawn in and watched as the teacher dug his claws in and took over their lives. Even now I hear stories of people attending that club who are afraid to miss a practice. Even for important family events.

    Personally I would not say that was Aiki. There is no harmony there. Just zealous greed, fear and mental bullying. At the very least it's a terribly negative view of Aiki and shouldn't be taught or encourage. I'm more inclined to take a view closer to that of Koyo. It's how we choose to live our lives. If it must be applied to martial arts then it's the harmony you find when your mind and body work together as one. But I'm pretty sure there's another term to describe that. Sen principles?
     
  5. Phantom Power

    Phantom Power Valued Member

    I believe the context of "aiki is about getting someone to do what you want them to do" is in purely martial terms, which I equate with Koyo's "strikes straight through the opponent's intention to attack". Not the modern cult/ruthless business symptoms you described. But as I never read the original set of the admiral's memoirs, I can't argue the point.
     
  6. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    In that case then I'll look around and see if I can find it.
     
  7. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    At an advanced level it is possible to often assess the opponent's next move correctly.

    At a very high grade the kamae is impenetrable and you find yourself "fighting their fight".

    With Sekiya shihan and Chiba shihan I realised a few times that I was unintentionally attacking where and when to their dictates.Of course if I stopped and decided to create a plan..I found myself on my butt.

    Maybe the answer is in there somewhere.
     
  8. embra

    embra Valued Member

    I remember long ago, folk saying that Sekiya Shihan was remarkably skilled in reading the opponent's intentions and also a very agile and supple uke, even into his 70s.
     
  9. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    I took Sekiya shihan to visit Stirling castle when he stayed with me for a couple of months.

    In Stirling we stayed with a karateka friend.He had a friendly "bout" with Sekiya shihan who explained maai to him by always being too close or just out of reach.

    Of course it was not a seious encounter but Stuart was constantly confused as he simply could not get into position to do anything.

    Later he told me he had never felt so helpless and vulnerable.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  10. embra

    embra Valued Member

    I never trained with Sekiya Shihan, but recall folk being very impressioned by his skill.

    The nearest I could maybe compare would be a seminar I went to in about 1984 or so, in Oxford with Seigo Yamaguchi. Even trying to get a hold of that fellow was like trying to grasp water - he just seemed to effortlessly detect my tricks and be somewhere I didnt expect him to be.

    I recall that no-one (including some very high ranked Dan grades of the UK Aikikai of the time) really seemed to able to match his timing, movement and efficiency of execution.

    Everyone went away shaking their heads - because no-one could make sense of it. It was like a Matador with Bulls in a bullring - none of the Bulls got anywhere near him.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  11. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    The facts are that NONE of the original shihan placed great emphasis on the peace and love ellement.

    Become so strong that you need not fear attack and so mature that others need not fear you was about it.

    It was the westerners who started coming up with their interpretation of "O Sensei's " philosophy when in fact top shihan have told me that they had little idea of what he was talking about ALL they cared about was surviving the SEVERITY of the training.
     
  12. KOKORO KAI

    KOKORO KAI Valued Member

    I remember Sekiya Sensei visiting Stirling and having tea at Stuart's home I was driving the car, good and happy days. Nice photo Bill at Central Station.
    Tommo:)
     
  13. Blast

    Blast Valued Member

    I read what was said about aiki on the previous page and I'd like to say that, in my dojo, we call blending with the attacker aiki. Blending, aiki and harmony are considered the same here.

    This always made sense to me because I see no other reason to call O'sensei's martial art aikido (aiki was used before the philosophy thing).

    The harmony, ai is considered to not go force vs force with the attacker, but to blend with his force, where I train.

    While I'm at it, ki is considered energy.

    That's how it is around here, that's what I'm taught.
    The 'shihan' who spread aikido around here is Sugano sensei, so I'm guessing he taught that to his students.

    It's just a translation, so I don't attach too much value to it.
     
  14. dentoiwamaryu

    dentoiwamaryu Valued Member

    The correct japanese term for blending with your Uke is AWASE, from the japanese term of AWASERU (to be in harmony)which shares the same kanji as AI.
     
  15. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Imagine a stream flowing along and a stronger stream blends with it and redirects it. That is a better image of awase. Blending.

    O Sensei called his art Aikido to show that we do not compete with each other therby creating winners and losers.

    Rather we should train together so that we can all become strong. This is aiki.

    However Chiba shihan said that aikido is a confrontation of spirits where we challenge each other with strong acurate and powerfull attacks lacking only malice.

    When harmony is demanded when we are attempting to learn timing body alignment and unbalancing.. that is NOT aiki that is deception. We harmonise by offering sincerity in our attacks so that tori learns true effective technique.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
  16. Blast

    Blast Valued Member

  17. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    Interesting video.
     
  18. ludde

    ludde Valued Member

    Interesting. But it looks like the muay goes easy on him.
     
  19. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    I like the russian approach however that was a DEMONSTRATION. The aikidoka was not using atemi and the Thai fellow was certainly pulling his strikes. Still I liked it.
     
  20. Blast

    Blast Valued Member

    I felt something was going on, but I thought it was a friendly spar. If it's a demonstration, that makes sense, going through the whole thing.

    I also discovered it's an aikibudoka.

    Something different:
    I noticed in a lot of posts that before applying a aikido technique one must unbalance first. This is often done through the use of atemi.

    But I don't see how atemi unbalances. I mean he doesn't have to move his feet in order to not fall or something. In class they told me atemi provides a shock effect (and other things, like getting or keeping the right distance).
    This shock effect gives tori a split second to apply his technique.

    Maybe unbalancing is the same, but that's unlikely since I actually took a dictionary to be sure there are no other meanings attached to the word.
     

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