Minimum requirement for self-defense (physical side of it)

Yes, good point well taken.

Clips from YouTube do not constitute a thorough and methodical gathering of data though. The data pool is far too small and self-selective.

 

Spot-on smithy

 

Nah.
I'm simply exploring this view from an evidence based perspective, rather than opinion based or being told it's true.


"The closer you can replicate in training the stresses you will encounter in the real world, the more you become desensitized to those stresses and are better able to operate under them. So while something like boxing will provide a stress, something like John Titchen's sim days provide specific stress for self defence. The boxing provides specific stress for boxing"

Especially from the point of view of physical preparation.
It is proven and can be proven that boxing fundamentals and people training in boxing have and can defend themselves in SD situations, without doing this other training.
Ring v scenario.....
I believe a full contact competitive fight on any level.....striking, grappling, both, stick...whatever.......with little to no protective gear ,as often as a person can or dare or is willing, will prepare better for the physical side of SD than anything else and even help with other elements. This can be felt by doing it, seen in fights and seen in real time footage in SD or unscripted real fights.

That just simply is how it is.
Where is the same degree of evidence for this other way of training?

Thats all I was asking, to explore the above view.
I'm not saying it's useless, not trying to say don't do it, or do it, or do this or that etc.

 

How do people who deal with violence daily train?

Scenarios

How do you get better at those?

Resistant training

How does resistant training become better suited for self defense?

Scenarios

Really you are trying to create a dichotomy that simply isn't there and has been pointed out already it is a myopic view of the world of SD as it eliminates a massive number of the populace before you have even begun

 

It's even more puzzling since you haven't actually DONE the training in the first place - honestly, so go a SIM day and try your hand - I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how much you will learn and how much it will show you there is a lot more than hitting hard at play

 

No your mum should not.
Though would you give her a false premise that, if things go physical, she will be able to handle herself?
Not likely.
People who have never had some kind of unscripted, no gear, full contact physical pressure in some capacity should not be made to believe there's a way to get that experience without actually doing that.
They can do all the soft skill stuff they want, but if, it goes physical , and it can no matter what anyone does....it would be very naughty to give them the belief they can fight back ,if they have never been tested to see if they can fight back.

The safest most sensible way, other than somehow getting into situations ,is to have some kind of competitive fight.

 

Pearls before swine.........

 

People who deal with violence daily actually have their experience of learning within that daily dealing of violence.
It's theirs.
And inevitably, when truth be told and you look deeper, there is always a full contact combat sport within their training or past training somewhere.

For someone who doesn't deal with violence daily, the next safest way to physically prepare realistically, on a fundamental movement level, is through some kind of competitive fight.

 

Evidence for this please.

 

I will answer that - none because it isn't true

Martial artists in an LE context are an exception not a rule

 

Exactly my thought.

Even amongst door supervisors there are a surprising amount who have no MA training.

 

Dealing with violence on a fairly regular basis -- first and foremost -- sets the right mindset which is the most important thing to possess.

I know many people who deal with violence who have never had any formal training except for once or twice a year for a couple of days. They do just fine handling it.

I have known some of the same people who have had "formal" training and don't or didn't handle violence very well when it faced them.

People are different, but no matter what the training level...mindset is the foundation. The training is simply the tools contained within the tool box of the mind.

 

Haha.
Go for it, learn to deal with violence and pressure for real on a fundamental movement level without actually practicing or experiencing it for real on a fundamental movement level and dupe others into believing it too.
Good luck.
Very naughty, but good luck.

 

That's not what you said.

You said:

"...inevitably, when truth be told and you look deeper, there is always a full contact combat sport within their training or past training somewhere."

Which simply isn't true. Not for police, not for bouncers, not for people in violent care or medical environments, nor many other professions that include regular controlling of violence.

I'm all for evidence based practice, but evidence looked at through blinkers is not evidence based practice. You've already got your pet theory going, and you're ignoring anything that might go against that.

 

Have you been reading this kind of stuff Haha.

"Should your opponent be in the right but, luckily for you, choose a faulty proof, you can easily refute it and then claim that you have refuted the whole position. This is the way which bad advocates lose a good case. If no accurate proof occurs to the opponent or the bystanders, you have won the day."


"If your opponent is making a generalization, find an instance to the contrary. Only one valid contradiciton is needed to overthrow the opponent's proposition.
A brilliant move is to turn the tables and use your opponent's arguments against him or herself."

I can see where your going haha.

Like I say...good luck with being duped.

 

I think I got more than one valid contradiction

It would be nice if you could engage in debate rather than... well, whatever the above is.

Is everyone who's not been in competition being duped? Is a person's competitive fighting record the best indicator of how well they would deal with a violent situation?

 

"Meaning

Items of quality offered to those who aren't cultured enough to appreciate them." I'd never heard of this one!

 

So here's another thing....what competition rules?
Sport martial arts is a very wide category. Olympic footy head touch taekwondo, which is ostensibly "full contact" but not really? Judo? Before the "don't touch the legs!" rule or after? Tai Chi push hands? Sport Karate? Does grappling qualify? IBJJF where you can't leg reap, slam, strike and all that good stuff?

I have a sneaking suspicion the answer will be "the rule-set I'm training for".