Matt Thornton's comments on Silat

Discussion in 'Silat' started by TomFurman, Nov 29, 2006.

  1. shinbushi

    shinbushi Reaver

    Helio is is his 90s and still rolls (spars) with his students.
  2. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    I'm a bit confused by this :confused: So Mighty Matt even considers freeform sparring as dead if pre-set responses are learnt beforehand?

    So, does not MT, Boxing and MMA have pre-set responses to attacks? OK, let's take a jab, I take it MMAers learn to parry a jab?

    So, is not the parrying of a jab a pre set response?

    Sorry mate, but any MA training at least initially contains 'if I do this you can do that'

    So let's take the jab again. Let's say I have no idea of what to do and I decide to start MMA training a la Matt T.

    "So that's a jab Mr. T. How do I deal with that?"

    What happens next?
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2006
  3. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    ...and we have now given Matt's comments approximately eleven more pages of free publicity than they deserve :rolleyes:
  4. Kwan Jang

    Kwan Jang Valued Member

    With my advanced students, I also use a shock knife to simulate a live blade, as well as many of the previously mentioned drills. i have found it to be an excellent training tool for this purpose. I don't really know Matt Thornton's opinion on this, but IMO different pre-arranged drills to develop a sense of flow are essential. The only problem is when people don't eventually evolve past this. I feel far to many people try to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" in their "revolution" from TMA's and their methods.

    IIRC, I have read that while Tank Abbott listed "pit fighting" as his "style", he had over eight years of judo training when he began the early UFC's (I don't know how accurate the source was though). Also, the lack of fighting skill and embelleshed credentials of the TMA practitioners in the early UFC's were legendary. (and I'm a MMA'er).
  5. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    I bet he's got UFC/WWF wannabes queing down the road by now, and sales of spandex hotpants will have rocketed ;)

    What's needed on MAP is an 'MMA vs Everything' section to dump all these pointless threads in :love:
  6. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    You got that right GS. Too many people who are on the list are the "wannabe" They pretending that they are an expert or knows everything. Until you meet them in person and see him/perform. In my experience, 9 out 10 the are a keyboard warrior or BS-er. Punt intended :)
    Lets dwell in what you can do, not what people you know. You cannot use someone else experience and expertise to justify or to promote your argument.
    In the early 70's I compete in martial arts tournament, in kata, weapon, kumite. In those day there is no requirement to wear safety or protection. So most of the time we fight with a bare knuckles. The basic rules was, light contact to the face. Duh..:)
    The only punishment for people who creamed your face is that he will be DQ. Who give you know what....Another words, is a full contact. You can not depending on your attacker to control his punches or kicks. I won over 200 trophies and 40 Grandchampion trophies. So I may be lucky or I played the game very well. So I have been there. Now before all of you the BJJ, MMA, or question my background. I'm going to tell you like it is. I've been there and done that. I can tell you that if you are trully learning martial arts. Only good can come from it.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2006
  7. jeff5

    jeff5 Valued Member

    I agree with a lot of what Thornton says, but I think he takes it to the extreme. Its almost as if you don't train exactly the way he does, then you're not training alive enough and your training is useless.

    My problem with some of the alive training is that they don't work enough technique. Sparring is fine, but if you don't get feedback and constantly refine techinque, your going to end up with slop.

    When we train in martial arts, we are basically training in percentages. Your training will give you X% better chance to survive an encounter. That's it. Anyone who says their art is THE art, it will 100% beat any other art or make you DEADLIEST MAN ALIVE, is seriously full of crap.
  8. jeff5

    jeff5 Valued Member

    Tellner. Those are really good questions. I read them a few days ago, and I've been thinking about my answers. The answers aren't simple, they never are.

    Is the life of a violent criminal worth more to you than your own?

    No. This is assuming that I'm being assaulted by a violent person who is intent on seriously harming, or killing me. I think your level of force has to be equal to the situation. (I think that's what the law thinks too!) Stupid drunk uncle Bob, or even random drunk bar encounter, my goal would be to subdue rather than to injure. But its hard to say, no situation is ever going to be the same, and in the end you just have to use your own judgement. And live with your choice.

    Do you think you're skilled enough to disarm and subdue a strong man experienced in violence without hurting him or getting hurt yourself? Be honest.

    No. Chances are I'll be hurt in some fashion, but also that there would have been no way out of the situation for myself. Also chances are that I'll have to do some serious, even fatal, damage to the attacker in order to protect myself or my family. Do I think I'd 100% walk away? I'd be a fool to think so. But I do have the confidence that I'd have a pretty good chance of surviving.

    If you ask for help from friends or the police do you bear any responsibility for violence they use on your behalf?

    Yes. If I'm in such dire circumstances that I need help, I guess I'd be willing to accept what happened to my assailant. What I wouldn't want, ever, is a friend or family member getting hurt because of me.

    Much as we'd like to be independent almost nobody is. Our friends, families, spouses, lovers, communities and employers all own a piece of us. How much hardship, pain and money are you willing to cost them through being dead or crippled?

    Hopefully my training would avoid the dead or crippled part! But being realistic, there is always a chance that it may not. I'd like to think that if it came down to it, that my family would know my moral character, and know that I wouldn't put myself in any situation with extreme consequences by choice, and that it would have been a last resort.

    If you would not injure or kill to protect yourself would you do it to protect another? Your spouse? Your child? Your best friend? If the answers are different, ask why.

    Yes. I think I would actually be more inclined to use force to protect someone I care about than myself.

    I know I'm not perfect. We all have ego, tempers, moments of gross stupidity :p. My goal first and foremost is always to avoid an altercation. But who knows. All I can say is that I'll do my best to not use any of my training unless I absolutely have to in order to defend myself or my loved ones.
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2006
  9. apibumiayrudara

    apibumiayrudara New Member

    you think it is a comic book style i am sorry think again.
  10. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    Jeff, glad you're thinking about these things. Like I said, there are no right or wrong answers as long as they're honest. It's getting there that's important.

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