Martial arts makes you worse, not better at self defense

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Isaiah90, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. Isaiah90

    Isaiah90 Member

    Martial artists say "some training is better than no training" but its silliness. Martial arts made me worse not better in a way. Before i got in it, my mindset was survive by any means and destroy or kill your opponent. I swung wild punches, bite, headbutt, eye gouged, try to break bones, etc. in sparring. If i couldn't win in hand to hand combat, i'd use weapons or ask friends for help. We used whatever weapons were available - knives, guns, chairs, spears, rags, pots, pans, sticks, swords, etc. We tried ganging up on one guy as a team. You had to really adapt and be realistic in your approach to combat.

    When i got in martial arts, none of that was allowed. I was annoyed especially when the masters said you had to do the techniques right in sparring. Worse, traditional martial artists just talked about theories and scripted their techniques. It wasn't practical. Combat sports was slightly better, but still not good for self defense. I hated how referees controlled everything lol. If i was beating the crap out of someone, the referee would step in and hold me back. You really think a ref is going to take care of you when a guy's pounding you with his fists in an attack? I realized i was better untrained than trained. I'd rather throw horrible punches aggressively than hesitate trying to throw a perfect one lol.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2019
  2. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

  3. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Mod Note: Isiah90. Profanity is not allowed on MAP. Please make any points without using it. This is the second time a member of the mod team has had to edit a post of yours for this.

    You can find our Terms of Service by clicking on the "terms and rules" button on the bottom right hand corner of every page.

    Dead_pool likes this.
  4. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Frankly, your various posts make you sound like you have no control. It is a mistake to think that is a good thing. Self defense includes having control to handle different levels of threat. If you think self defense is about swinging wildly, biting and eye gouging, you don't understand what self defense is.

    A good instructor will teach you how to throw perfect punches without hesitating.

    Trying to break bones in a sparring match makes for a horrible attitude and unsafe partner. If you even succeed, good people are not going to want to train with you. You don't need to be wild and uncontrolled to gain skill. If that partner breaks your bone, then you are out of all training for awhile - learning nothing- practicing nothing.

    Horrible wild punches miss, and can open up opponent's opportunities for attack. You throw yourself off balance, which an opponent can take advantage of.

    I rather suspect this advice will fall on deaf ears. So if you have a group of like-minded people that want to literally break each others bones, by all means go for it. But when you are out of work or school and not making a living, when you can't do other things you can enjoy in life, when you can't train, when one of those injuries plagues you the rest of your life, I will not be sympathetic.

    The point of self defense is to not get injured after all. But if you want to injure each other first, before a criminal can get to you, again, by all means go ahead. :rolleyes:o_O
    IronMaiden1991, Nachi and axelb like this.
  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Before you got into martial arts, you were sparring?

    Play fighting with friends isn't sparring.
    pgsmith and Xue Sheng like this.
  6. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Oh good, another thread started for yet another nonsensical rant.

    Why are you even here?
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I imagine to get people to buy his services as self defence instructor over Skype, or buy his ebook.
    axelb likes this.
  8. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Driving lessons made me worse at driving.
    Before, I could just step on the pedal and go anywhere and as fast as I want.
    I just turn when I want. Stop when I want.
    But Driving Lessons were stupid.
    So scripted. The teacher got mad, when I didnt bother learning the technicalities of driving. Really unrealistic. Do you think I'm going to stop, just because I crashed into you? If you crash into me, its your fault. Just cos there were red lights or road signs, they aint gonna stop me.
    Driving lessons are unrealistic in the real World.
    ZaxNeon, melbgoju, Nachi and 10 others like this.
  9. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    The thing a lot of what you're saying (in this thread and others) there's a kernel of truth in there but it's obfuscated by a lot of hyperbole, straw manning, inaccurate stereotyping, personal opinion and dogmatic assertions that don't always apply.
    Xue Sheng likes this.
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That flat thing in your room where all that happened; that's called a TV.

    All the 3D, smelly stuff outside of that; that's called the real world.

    Try not to get them mixed up.
  11. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    You know... I was just thinking the same thing.....but about being a pilot, and aviation engineering...flying lessons are it engineering school.....rules to follow, training methodology...physics....calculus...who needs em'...BAH!!!! well I'm off to go fly my newest plane later

    axelb and Dead_pool like this.
  12. Isaiah90

    Isaiah90 Member

    lol of course we don't actually hurt each other. Most of what we do is little to no contact. Because this kind of sparring is so dangerous, you have to only use full-contact sparring gear if you want to go all out. You're not allowed to spar full contact without gear because someone could end up hospitalized or dead. By the way, you missed the point when i said i'd rather throw horrible punches than hesitate in trying to throw perfect ones. Alot of martial artists take away your aggression in favor of dogmatic and "proper" ways of fighting. They condition students to wait and punch passively. This is poor for self defense especially if your attacker is already clobbering you with his/her fists.
  13. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    So breaking someones bed...... is little or no contact...... Have you ever officially trained a martial art.....or told the same story twice.....

    axelb likes this.
  14. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    “Punch passively” ?
  15. pgsmith

    pgsmith Valued dismemberer

    Play fighting with your friends also has zero to do with self defense.

    Gotta love all of the YouTube phenoms that know all about self defense, but have never actually had to defend themselves from anything other than a random schoolkid fight by the bike racks. :)
  16. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    When I started sparring (both in BJJ, and in Muay Thai), it became quite obvious to me that, against a trained martial artist, I would not fare well untrained (or, in my case, lesser-trained).
    One of my first sparring experiences in BJJ was against the (at the time) 2nd degree black belt instructor (he is now a 3rd degree bb). We started from standing, I basically bull rushed him (I had some weight and size on him), and boom, guillotine. I managed to knock him onto his back and power into him for a few seconds, but had to tap. He apologized for guillotining me harder than he intended to, because I was really pushing forward very hard. (I didn't think he was excessive, though aside from getting hit in the head I don't tend to mind a higher level of intensity.)
    I basically did what I would have done in a real fight (assuming I wanted to take the guy to the ground instead of striking)... I used to wrestle, but it had been a couple decades since then. So I wasn't completely untrained, but I am fairly sure I was just rushing him like someone untrained might do if they decided to grapple for whatever reason.

    In Muay Thai, I am still figuring out both how to control distance, and how to keep myself protected. I have a hard time landing any shots on people (who have all been training longer than I have). I haven't tried going wild and "throwing pocketbooks" as one of the coaches likes to say (those wild overhand swings), but I can pretty clearly see that, while I might land some of those on their arms (as they'll be blocking), or if I get really lucky get a strike or two on their head, they would immediately be popping me in the head with counters and landing quite a few more of them than I'd land. (Its hard to block effectively while throwing pocketbooks.)

    I can somewhat understand why someone with little or no training might not wrap their head around why wild, full power attacks (either striking or grappling) wouldn't fare well against someone who has trained for a while and knows how to defend against them. It is hard to really understand how effectively a trained person can keep themselves safe (well, much safer than the untrained person can keep themselves), and wipe the floor with the untrained person.

    Sure, you may get lucky pulling a weapon they don't expect, or get in a lucky shot, but unless you are coming in numbers or have a force multiplier like a bat, knife, or gun (and they don't), the trained person has much better odds of winning. In this context, by winning I mean coming out of the situation with less (probably much less) damage to themselves than the untrained attacker sustains.
    aaradia, axelb, Mitch and 1 other person like this.
  17. Isaiah90

    Isaiah90 Member

    Yea, i notice martial artists usually punch too defensively. They keep their distance and punch to keep their opponents at bay. Sometimes, they punch just to punch or scare their opponents. It's poor for self defense.
  18. Isaiah90

    Isaiah90 Member

    Kinda missing the point. I'm not talking about fighting. I'm talking about someone who's bent on damaging you aggressively in an attack. That level of violence is way different from a fight. It's fast, unexpected, and doesn't leave you with alot of room to do what you want. For example, i read an article of a Taekwondo guy who got approached by a guy asking for money. The Taekwondo guy said "sorry i don't have any." Guy got mad and rushed him. The Taekwondo guy tried to land high kicks, but failed because he closed in. The attacker punched him in the head several times and the Taekwondo guy was on the ground. That's way different from a TKD fight where you bow and respect each other enough to show off your skills. Street attackers respect no one.
  19. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    I remember working in security, not reading about it, or seeing it on TV, or on a computer screen, and I got into multiple altercations, drunks, drug addicts, mental health patients and even one WWE pro wrestler. Many by surprise many sudden and violent.... personal experience speaking...not a story I read, or something I made up, real life experience, not martial arts training did me well, I was not paid to lose, so I didn't.

    So....I asked you a couple to answer them?

    1) Have you ever officially trained a martial art?

    2 Have you ever told the same story twice?
    pgsmith likes this.
  20. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    So, you should be able to beat a pro-Boxer at their own game then...
    axelb and bassai like this.

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