I decided to remove my age from my profile because idiots were getting caught up on it. "You'll understand when you're older". I have a rank in CLF, but I do not think it is important or says anything about my skill because I know people of similar or higher rank who simply don't deserve it. As for Eskrima - we have no rank. We hit each other with sticks, and we spar a lot. That's about it. No crap, just hitting each other a whole lot.
Greetings, You're going back the the same old agruements again, and I summit that you're looking at it from only ONE angle only. 1. They're presumably the best fighters in the world why (cause the top traditional masters in the world don't fight for sport so you don't know!) 2. What I call "real MA" don't limit a fight to only empty hands, with rules, anything goes weapons, tricks, anything. 3. Against multiple attackers the stratagies changes totally and the ring folks don't train for that. So can only conclude the people you mention are the best known fighters in a Ring Match that's all!
I'm no kali expert but I have two good years in Pekiti Tirsia, they have levels of some sort not belts as in karate. How long are you into Escrima?
Good idea, I'm gonna do that too. Then maybe some people who will remain nameless will listen to my points and not my age.
Hapkido grappling Greetings, Thomas, I would'nt call Trad. HKD ground grappling it's not, I would call it ground defenses, which could lead into ground sparring and in my school it's a far cry from grappling, I would call it "ground fighting". In the Ground fighting we use, locks, off balances, sweeps, chokes, strikes, nerve attacks, kicks, ect. hapkido style not judo or Bjj style. Exactly how does C.H. fit BJJ into the Hapkido curriculum? What's taught 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc, and how far does it go, meaning are there a certain amount of tech you learn per belt rank? And do you get belts as in BJJ, blue, purple, or the only belt you get is from C.H. etc. Per your last post, I think some people including myself got carried away and lost common courtesy on this board, I see you as a leader on this board you should try to stress the importance of civil discussions. I for one will watch what I say and how I say it.
actually alot of them do train for multiple opponents, alot of coaches require it, but i'll give you that, many do not train for multiples. but then again, if there are multiples i enjoy the nike defense.
Greetings, Maybe they do but it would'nt work in the ring. The entire fight strategy would change and move away from grappling to stand up at least until one guys down for good? Frankly I admire the stratagy of the Ninja more than any other group of combat fighters in history. They use anything thats works to obtain they objective, tricks, weapons, disguises, great stratagies. I personaly would follow thier ideas. The bottom line for me is your 1000 times more likey to get in a fight that requires more than just one on one ring skills. To me that logic tells me what I should be doing to protect myself and what kind of training I should do.
Bottom line here This has got to be one of the longest, most useless and opinionated discussions to ever make it past the moderators without being locked. I am a white belt, yes WHITE belt in Shin Koo Hapkido. We train hard, two hours at a time, four times a week. We don't piddle around, BS, take breaks etc. From start to finish, our workout is high endurance. again, I am a 35 year-old white belt. Does this make me any less of a MA? If it does, than accept my instructors open-invite to participate in our class. That is my rank, WHITE belt. I have been in and out of many DoJangs throughout my life, and have never found anything worthy until I came upon Shin Koo Hapkido. Am I saying that there are not other worthy systems and instructors out there? NO, absolutely not! I WILL say that they are few and far between. Age and rank are far less important than maturity IMHO. There are a lot of self-appointed masters out there. Fortunately I am fortunate enough to have an Instructor and a Master who are both dedicated to the preservation of the art, rather than the profits and fortune that it may bring them. So many "clowns" to weed through, I am blessed with the real deal!
whoami, you have addressed an important point. You train hard but have only been doing it for a short time. Im sure that your 2 hrs 4 times a week rivals ALOT of people that have trained half assedly for 3+years. I train 2 times a week in TKD at my school, and 2 times in JKD. I train 4 times TKD in my own time with the blackbelts from my school. I train for hours in my own time by myself. Is "ability" (as some people on here see it), measured by length of time in years, or by length of time spent training in hours. I believe the latter. I train very hard, a damn sight harder then many people, i know that for a fact. Some of them have been training for 5+ years, but I have passed them all. Also it should be measured on the quality, not quantity of your training. As Whomai said, he trains hard during his lessons. There is no break. Just like in my training we do not stop for a break. If we did I would be very ****ed off, I'm paying alot of money, I want my money's worth. So who is more experienced and a more effective fighter? Me who trains very hard for a year? Or someone that just turns up to lessons for 5+years?
Greetings, The truth of the matter is this, in HKD we have the belt ranking system. 1. Any good Instr. would require the person to EARN that rank. Some may take 3 years to BB some may take 8 years but in the end the two black belts should be a BB. 2. Age is a big factor meaning, a 25 year old earns a BB in 3 years and is good shape, fast, flexable. A 40 year old earns the same BB in 5 years, he's slower, less stamina, can't jump high etc. That's life and nobody can do anything about it. 3. Who has more expirience the 3 year BB or the 5 year BB? Maybe the older 5 year BB You have to judge each person independantly of the other because we're all different.
Exaclty my point. Thats why I feel the ranking system is flawed. The masters son at my school has the fighting ability of a 7dan bb. However his rank is only 4th dan. This goes to show that the ranking system is not the be all and end all.
Greetings, Rank or Belt system in Trad. Systems is much deeper than that, in HKD and many Trad. Korean systems the curriculums ends at 4th dan. A 5th, 6th, 7th, etc. has has more time to perfect the techniques, also people with that rank are generally middle age or older and usually don't compete or even spar much except to teach. It also has to do with overall knowledge of the system, perfecting more techniques, Contributing to the art, developement of new techs or applications, teaching, honor, etc. Who can "spar better" is NOT THE LITMUS TEST for everything in the Arts it's only one part. Mike Swain no long competes and he's a high Dan in Judo, would you call him a has been, or a great teacher, someone who knows the game inside & out, can teach, past on judo to the next generation even though a 3rd Dan Olympic team member may beat him in a match today? You don't seem to understand the bigger picture in the Arts or your too focused only on sparring, I'm not sure what.
How would you gage the style of a martial artists? I do agree from where you come from however, Im sure that some of the senior bb in my school could beat my master, but their concept on techniques is nothing compared to his. In fact my master used to compete in the sporting side of his art. He is previous WTF champion of the world. This was before TKD was accepted into the Olympics.
I see your point. I know there is a difference between “grappling” and “ground survival” and I would actually characterize our program as “ground survival”… our main goal is to prevent going down if possible, reduce damage if we do go down, get back to our feet and escape, and to use techniques to finish the fight on the ground if we can’t get back to our feet and disengage. Our main goal is to protect ourselves and get out of there as soon as possible. (Combat Hapkido ranks: white, yellow, green, purple, blue, brown, red, red/black, black/white, black) In general... In Combat Hapkido, we start students out at yellow belt with basic breakfalls… to help prepare students for the inevitable fall to the ground… whether it’s accidental and solo, or intentional with an opponent. Students also begin to learn strikes (esp. kicks) to use from the breakfall position… mainly to keep an opponent from attacking them on the ground. At yellow belt or so, we add the various leg traps and takedowns from the ground to take a standing opponent down while we are on the ground. We teach some follow up strikes and a few submissions. However, at these levels (and actually all throughout our system’s philosophy), our main intent is to get back to our feet to strike or get away… not to stay and play on the ground if we can avoid it. Around green, yellow, and purple, we work defences against takedowns… especially from single and double leg and practice using our underhook/sidestepping, posting, evasion, sprawling, and occasionally striking (especially to feed into a guillotine) At green, purple and blue belt or so, we work the scenarios for if we end up on the ground. We practice the guard and the mount and work some submissions from both top and bottom, from the guard, side guard, and the mount. We work extractions and trying to get back to our feet, but we also work transitioning into submissions or striking… as the situation presents itself. From Red belt and up we continue building on the ground survival techniques and begin incorporating the option of going to the ground in our advanced sparring classes (“no rules- good control”). For the 1st dan test, we evaluate all of the techniques listed here and do a bit of ground work like escaping the guard, escaping someone who is mounting you, and etc. Keep in mind that even within the “basic core” Combat Hapkido course, the ground survival program is relatively basic and designed to keep you safe until you can get back to your feet and get out of there. It is also designed to give you a “leg-up” on techniques to protect you if you are taken to the ground and can’t get up quickly. However, there is enough material, resources, and seminars available for students who want to do much more in terms of adding a bigger ground game to their core system. All in all, the basic concepts are the same…. just applied to a different entry and situation.
Greetings, I could probably beat both my Masters because of thier age, SO WHAT. To date my career in the the Arts pales in comparison to thiers, that's why I say sparring is one small part of the whole in the Arts as I explained above. Sports however winning is everything! That's another BIG reason why the MA & sports are two different realities.
winning is everything in sports and should be the main driving force in sparring and MA period for that matter, but you have to understand, that to win you have to improve, and to improve you must practice and train.ect. as far as beating a "master" thats alot more common now adays because of the effect that martial sports. i wouldn't stand a very high chance of beating my jujitsu instructor. my TKD instructor, i could whoop his ass 6 ways to sunday, same goes for my shotokan instructor, my MT instructor, no way, hes a full time competitor. but i have more respect than that for those men, a few of them anyway. my shotokan instructor is an aging man in his 60s so that dosen't count for much. but my TKD instructor was just an ignorant 40 year old loser, who didn't stand a chance in hell of beating a compitent fighter. point here is that lots of people can beat their "masters" but your remark about age has had no validity, they've been training longer than i've been alive, but when it comes down to it, he just dosen't know enough of the basics and mechanics of fighting. age has very little bearing when compared to the validity of skill.
Hopefully he taught you something worthwhile... even if he couldn't beat you, I imagine he has seen/learned/experienced a lot that could be of great benefit to your learning. There's a lot to be learned from people who may be past their "primne fighting age" or who may not have been champion (think about pro-ball coaches...) And, aren't you still training with this man? It seems that you don't respect him, but you train with him?!?!? I imagine that makes for a stressful class...
