There's been a lot of intellectual debate on this forum and I've seen offense taken. We all tend to act on our beliefs (naturally) but why are we offended by what other people believe, and thus act on? It would be easy to avoid offending by coming from a place of: "I don't know much and this is what I read and i don't really believe it i mean i'm just a normal citizen of my society" But what you see is essentially this: A = person1 B = person2 -When A and B have the same beliefs they get along. -When A and B have different beliefs they don't get along. (even if it's just A or be who has a problem with the other and not both at the same time) The only cause for annoyance in the world is when A doesn't like something about B (Whether B is a variable for a person, place or thing) because B is seen as *different* than A. Afterall, if B was just like A, A wouldn't have a problem with B, right? But A isn't more *special* than B whether it thinks differently or not, because it's all just that, thoughts. If you find yourself offending people you're not doing anything right or wrong. A just sees you as different and doesn't like that. Since we all have our beliefs we live our philosophies. If someone else has different beliefs than yours why not learn as much as you can about them instead of fearing that they might rub off on you. A little understanding goes a long away and multiple philosophies can coexist, in a sense they have no choice but to whether you resist or not
Couple of thoughts . . . You won't necessarily get on with someone just because they're like you. Speaking personally, I'm ok to get on with most of the time but sometimes I can get pretty grouchy, and when I do I don't want to talk to people about it but would rather be left alone until I'm feeling more cheerful again. I also don't get along with people who are ok most of the time but who sometimes get pretty grouchy and won't tell me why! If my girlfriend was just like me we'd have dumped each other after about the first six months. It's the differences that make us get along so well. Other point: Often people don't want to learn about other people's differences. God knows why. I'm with you in that I like to learn about other people, but not everybody wants to. I guess it's similar to how an execrice fanatic cannot understand why the couch potato doesn't want to get off the couch and "feel how good exercise really is once you get into it". Does that make sense at all? I tapped it out in a bit of a hurry whilst at work.
hehe, yeah it makes perfect sense to me. I do agree that just because you see someone as just like you doesn't mean you'll like them (especially if you don't like yourself)
I don't think that anyone really considers themselves "special". They may think or be told so, but in reality it is ignorance and fear of the unknown (as opposed to acceptance of the unknown) that cause "annoyance" 90% of the time. If you don't like something than you just pay no attention to it unless it is directly affecting you (when it is natural to react) or it is being shoved in your face (which is mostly a modern culture phenomenon and a different matter for discussion). These are just one person's beliefs of course .
I see everyone as exactly like myself. My true self, the unchanging self that perceives personalities and the external world and futility tries to identify with it, compare itself to others, memorize everything and so on. All these things on the surface that change constantly. Personalities and opinions change constantly and yet we often like to think that we ARE these personalities and opinions, but underneath everything there is only one. It's like highlander, there can be only be one! As i've learned from this forum though you might say 'well proove that there's only one' but i can't prove there is only one to a personality because a personality exists only because it believes everything is separate.
You have totally and utterly completely lost me. Sorry! Is there any way to explain that more clearly?
I get along with everyone who isn't rude. It's only the rude people I have a problem with. Rudeness is a cause for annoyance.
There's best selling books on the subject by authors who have to write hundreds of pages all trying to say the same one thing. Because it's not an easy concept to grasp, especially if you were born in the western world. If you're interested try the books "I am that" and "the power of now"
I think that many people believe their boundaries as taught by others, therefore an inherent exception to a variation or misrepresentation of those boundaries in others is natural, as reinforcement to their own assumed behavior roles. I think you're right about the one personality thing, in the absorptive sense. A pair of eyes looking out into the wilderness as it were. And so when a comaraderie is assumed a cooperation appears naturally. So there is the founding pattern of psychology unique to you, the behavioral modes impressed upon you by the environment and a bunch of organs and flesh. Due to this nature, agreement seems directly proportional to income, in other words empowerment in an economic world. Put simply, the requirement for behavioral roles decreases, and there is less to take what is ultimately irrational exceptions with.
Sorry if reading this I smirk a little to myself gt3... ..because from the evidence I gathered from the last threads I have been on that you started (and you seem to start an awful lot !)it tends to be more you who isn't open-minded to other ppls beliefs, you even utterly refuse to give backup for what you say and very often tell ppl they have missinterpreted or not understood you. Tell me, how many times did you try understanding them ? It takes two ppl to understand a subject but if one person refuses to make you understand than the conversation goes nowhere. And by the way, I wasn't offended by your views like I told you before. In fact, I was so interested I would love to know the sources. But thats where the "annoyance" part comes in- you NEVER give any ! And that also changed my point-of-view on you as a person, someone not backing up what they say with anything comes over as big-headed and you reinforced that when you deliberatley refused to give answers to questions you started with. If you would get to know me gt3, you would find out that I'm a learner. I was brought up with a huge spectrum of things around me and I don't cease to learn. In fact, every person interests me. And I respect everyone for their views and beliefs. We are all individuals formed by what we learn, get told and experience. So each of us has lots to give to ppl and we just need to profit from this. But you should look at yourself when you say the above about ppl here on map. Because it takes two to hold a conversation. Christian
I've openly said what types of stuff ive studied many times on this forum. Yoga, Taosism, Buddhism being the main 3. I just said i refused to list off books i read in response to how i was asked to before anything i said was seen as valid because it doesn't seem right to me because i'm not just spouting hearsay from books. Though i do sometimes and you'll see me quote different people. But it comes from my direct experience and personally meditating on everything i talk about and seeing proof of it for myself and not just reading about it. But there you go study Yoga (real yoga not the american fad stuff that mainly focuses on physical exercise unless it's the real Hatha Yoga), Buddhism (mainly the mindfulness aspect), Taosim (read the tao te ching) and study them all at the same time so you really see the similarities. Also study western psychology and ANY thing you can on any form of philosophy and religion, and then meditate everyday trying to clear your thoughts and learn to stop your thinking and live from something beyond just thoughts as often as you can. Then you'll be closer to how i see things, not exactly since you couldnt have had the same experiences as me. I'm 27 years old, was born and raised in southern california. I was into skateboarding, martial arts and computer programming most of my life before finding Yoga, which completely turned my inner world around. Grew up around a lot of hate and stress with relatives around me on drugs, verbally abusive and so on. Developed agoraphobia from it since i was predisposed to anxiety from it running in my family and being under so much stress. Then i read the book "Happy Yoga: seven reasons why there's nothing to worry about" which changed my life in an instant and got me extremely into learning more about mindfulness, bliss, laughter, enlightenment and all that. Learned to see death completely differently. Less than a year after reading this book my grandmother died of cancer. Then my mother died of cancer. and another close person to me died of cancer. Then my greatgrandma who I was living with got breast cancer at age 90 and with her positive attitude destroyed it in 2 weeks and completely amazed me at how she had no fear with laughter and positive thinking and was able to heal so quick after only needing one surgery and no chemo, whereas the other people who died of cancer didn't have a good attitude toward life, they took on the normal approach of pessimism. My greatgrandma is 92 now and still going strong even though late last year she fell and fractured her spine and was taken from our home and put into a home by adult protective services since i was not a certified nurse. She healed in a few months from that and is doing great even though she never wanted to live in a home, her husband and like 8 brothers and sisters have already passed away and she's about the only one left in her family aside from some grand children and her 2 sons who live out of state. I was also able to handle this all extremely well, whereas in the past i thought i would have been so devestated i woulda lost my mind if any one of these things happened, let alone all of them one after the other after the other. This only served to strengthen my beliefs that emotional maturity is extremely real and that we have to be earnest with wanting to grow emotionally if we're ever to get past the everyday suffering we are conditioned to think is normal. I also Have been a student of Taijiquan for almost 10 years as far as my taoist learning has went. There, there's a little background on me hope it helps. As for where i am now i see death as no worse than birth. And everything 'bad' that happens i question as to what makes me so sure its bad? I've learned that pain and suffering are different. Pain isn't a problem until you make a problem. I've seen how thoughts control most people because they haven't learned how to stop believing every thought that pops into their head. And i've learned a bunch more stuff but all the learning comes from one underlying understanding, that peace/love/joy are our natural states and that everything else is conditioned and that we have to undo this conditioning to get back to that peace/love/joy. If you would have shown me saying this a few years ago i woulda said 'How lame, sounds hippy!" but it was because i wasn't ready. You can't force any teaching on anyone. As they say in Zen "When the student is ready the teacher will appear", or as krishna said "he that teaches those that do not want to hear is performing an immoral act and besides they can't hear it anyway". I get that you said you are into learning and that's why i think this forum is about "the student being ready and the teacher appearing". The teacher is anything though, life experiences, words, anything can be learned from. I assure you i look and listen attentively to everything because i'm very open to learning from anything i can. My mind is always receptive to any truth. And i'm humbler than i may sound. I wake up everyday and immediately remind myself that "i know nothing, what can i learn today?" In a way i'm self taught, but i wouldnt say completely self taught, It's just that i dont formally learn most things. With learning skateboard tricks my whole life there's no classes you go to to learn, you just have to figure it out own your own. I learned a buncha computer programming languages (and everything i know about computers) without formal classes, just books and experiements. And thats how I approach all learning, books and experiments. And also the opposite, spontaneous experiements that i then write about I think if you're really religious and believe that you have to follow some dogma to get into heaven, otherwise you'll go to hell, then you probably won't be open to this stuff. I believe that death is a sign of how we can always return to peace and that heaven and hell happen on earth and are metaphores to how you choose to think and live (but i could be wrong) List of books i recommend: "Happy Yoga" by steve ross "I am that" by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj "The power of now" by echart tolle "Stillness speaks" by echart tolle "The bhagavad gita" "The yoga sutra of pantajali" "The Tao Te Ching" "Miracle of mindfulness" by thich nahn hahn "Be here now" by ram dass "Journey of awakening" by ram dass "Your erroneous zones" by wayne dyer "Pulling your own strings" by wayne dyer "The ethics of Aristotle" "Walden" by henry david thoreau "Higher Self" by Deepak Chopra "A course in miracles" "Wherever you go there you are" by jon kabat-zinn "freedom from the known" by J. Krishnamurti "Anatomy of an illness" by norman cousins "The sedona method" by Hale Dwoskin "The tao of meditation" by jou, tsung hwa "The tao of pooh" by benjamin hoff "The way of the peaceful warrior" by dan millman Guess that's enough books to start with Maybe someone should start a book recommendation thread
I find it simple to not take offense by prepositioning the phrase "In my limited opinion based on my experience, I think that..." and then listening. When people debate using that at the beginning of their sentence, arguing about it somehow seems futile.
We might get offended by what other people believe, but more often it is what the other person saying True because of his beliefs and thus contradicting ours. For example: In one thread you said: That statement is quite radical and is expressed as something that is truth. There's difference between saying "I think our words only express...bllablabla". I mean: I can tell to my wife "I will have 3 potatos" I am you know... NOT lying. I really want those 3 potatos! Next one: (not direct quote, something like this) First stating some truth (as you see it) and after getting offense it doesn't help the situation to start stating that others for not understanding you (stating "their fault, not mine"). From my personal experience I've noticed that the first person to blame is myself I think if somebody does not understand what I mean then it's my job to explain it better - not to blame them, nor simply state "well, this is the way it is - sorry to hear you cannot understand". The way I get offensive posts is when I'm (perceived!) offensive. Doesn't really matter if I think I wasn't offensive - if other thinks so, then it means I need to think about my way of expressing myself. If I state my beliefs as True (which makes your beliefs false!) and you disagree with me, I could easily understand you would perceive me as arrogant *******. (Which I'm not. At least the arrogant part ) ROFL. This was a good really good one.
