You know guys, I am ITF and I think it is a matter of who your instructor is and his abilities. When I do spar, I use alot of side kicks, hook kicks, and round kicks in combinations. (thankyou Mr. Bill Wallace) WTF is probably more competitive in tournaments. I also believe it is a matter of what is available to learn in your area. If you have branches of a system in your area.....your are going to get variations of that style in your area. Truly, one is no better than the other, because that is a matter of opinion. It is also a matter of what the individual practitioner is looking for, interested in, and good at. How many students have quit early on in a system because they couldn't get it, and then kept on trying other systems till they find one they feel they can do? It is those few with a drive who will keep on trying something till they get it right even if they fail a hundred times. A good instructor will encourage a student to overcome his failings. An instructor with a tournament plan of action for his school will attract those competitive students right away. One who basis his agenda on self confidence, focusing, and self improvement has those. Depends on the emphasis. And the parents. Some parents freak the first couple of times their 8 year old spars. My instructor incorporates a little from all systems into our sparring and grappling. Use what works best. I have a ball at seminars because I am there to learn new things and also you will find those that are old hands at them do not advertise their ranks and styles and are willing to enjoy and share their knowledge with the other students. Thank goodness, in this world we have a choice of opinion and martial art we want to practice. I started many years ago in Kyrokoshinkye Karate and noticed right away the many similarities with TKD. Personally, neither was better because I respected and enjoyed the teachings of both instructors. Karate kid says he likes TSD better. Why did he change? TkdWarrior has alot of valid points. Most of the tournaments here are ITF. Where's WTF? It doesn't matter if you have a very skilled fighter in any style of TKD. If he is trained correctly and has a good knowledge of techniques, you will find he most always uses what works for him best and research his competiton before a bout to see what he is up against. Ask the old fighters, Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace, Chuck Norris, Cung Le{Muy Te} they watch their opponents warm up and how they stand ect. In fact, I know one of them use to check to see what the other was wearing to camoflage his glove and foot color. I would also like to say that is is not polite to knock other styles. WE need more positive models than critics.
i agree with darlph i put up my point against WTF styles... n it's basically depends upon two ppl(teacher n students)...due to my exposure to complete TKD some ppl think i m doing hapkido or aikido because with the accuracy i can get with joint locks...n with the way i punch... -TkdWarrior-
darlph wrote: <You know guys, I am ITF and I think it is a matter of who your instructor is and his abilities. When I do spar, I use alot of side kicks, hook kicks, and round kicks in combinations. > Me, too. Where I learned to do so? TSD <WTF is probably more competitive in tournaments. I also believe it is a matter of what is available to learn in your area. If you have branches of a system in your area.....your are going to get variations of that style in your area. > All (most anyways) schools in my area are in it for the money, not the art. Some are Mcdojangs. <How many students have quit early on in a system because they couldn't get it, and then kept on trying other systems till they find one they feel they can do? It is those few with a drive who will keep on trying something till they get it right even if they fail a hundred times. A good instructor will encourage a student to overcome his failings. > I had a hard time with TSD, but I stuck it out. My instructor was very encouraging. When I thought I couldn't do something, he said I could if I tried. I have good technique because of him. <Karate kid says he likes TSD better. Why did he change?> I'm a she. And I didn't leave TSD by choice. I had to move. I was very upset when I had to leave my TSD dojang. I still keep in contact with my friends there via email. I still train there when I visit home (NJ). I just wanted to say that I'm not knocking TKD in general. But I do WTF now, and it IS sport. I learned more self defense at white belt in TSD (three months) than I have in TKD so far (one year). They (this TKD school) teaches falls, take-downs, ect at red belt. What !?!?!?! I learned all that at orange belt in TSD. The stuff the TKD school teaches at black belt level I learned at green and blue belt in TSD. I have my "opinions" because the TKD school gave me reasons to do so. TKDwarrior, that's another thing I am good at. I love joint locks, take-downs, ect. But I have to practice them on my own to stay good at it, because this TKD school don't teach them till later. If you saw my technique compared to most in this school, you would see why I have an "opinion." It's not an ego thing. It's the truth. I have good technique because of my TSD instructor, not my TKD one.
hi laurie i understand ur probs...as i said talk to ur instructor... i think locking/grappling/hosin suls r not meant for BB only, i don't find this excuse good enuff from teacher ...they should be taught...u know when i was white belt i was taught every move, every kick every punch with the senior belts... it's different i got much more than my senior in locking things but my prespective was complete MA. if u don't find wat u looking for then u should totally change ur style to someone which is more into self defense... i hav heard that ITF is introducing some strict rules about theirs style, now they'll add grappling/locking moves in sparring too(anyone correct me) then it would be quite good... -TkdWarrior-
First off, "soft verson" of TKD??? I think you'll find the level of contact, power or force is down to the practitioner since 90% of the techinques are the same. I think perhaps you are getting really confused or maybe haven't had the privelage of seeing a good ITF club. IMO the difference between ITF/WTF sparring reflects the scoring method WTF: (really brief overview) Technique must strike target with force, resulting in opponent losing balance or unable to defend for instant. ITF: Technique must hit the target in with forcefull controlled manner. Now I've seen (and been on the recieving end) of some of Britain and Sweden's ITF best and let me assure you the blood flies at a higher level. Now we are not talking about regional champs here. We're talking EURO'S and WORLD champions here. Hell, I've got video evidence if anyone wants to task me to this!! Taekwon!
I've never quite understood this philosophy, there's no way a white belt can understand and perform things like twisting kick effectively with no prior training, and mistakes will creep in which will last a long time. Why not start simple and build up? If you go to a maths lesson and you've never done maths before you don't really expect them to be starting on integration before explaining addition.
Chopping in to the old "why are you not taught more X in TKD" The easy answer is the KISS acronym. KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID Since TKD is developed along the one master one strike philosophy. The majority of what you are learning through coloured belt grades is to defend effectively so you can deliver your counter. Joint/locking and grabbing at white belt is all very good experience but IMO most ( all) pure TKD instructors do not possess the knowledge to teach students techinques that are simple and effective. I do teach *simple* locks and escapes from grabs to all my white belts. However, since this is not my area I can't or will not teach more complicated things untill students have a proper understanding of how thier own body reacts in situations. I mean can you honetsly expect a white belt to effectively use complex grabs against an opponent who doesn't leave him/herself open for the techinque?? Come on!! Just watch some Aikido Randoori and see how difficult it is is the person doesn't want to be grabbed. Hope Tintin and Freeform back me up here IMO coloured belt in TKD is where you learn the letters of the TKD alphabet. A B C D..... Once you get to black belt you learn to start reading. Cheers
<I've never quite understood this philosophy, there's no way a white belt can understand and perform things like twisting kick effectively with no prior training, and mistakes will creep in which will last a long time. > CKD wat ur white belt hav prior training of Muai thai ?? well normally my teacher teaches everyone the same he says' if any kick u can't do it...then try it...don't totally ignore it... BTW basically in White belt there r only 2 kicks(front rising or yup chakgee n front snap/abchabuskgee(sp??)) <Now I've seen (and been on the recieving end) of some of Britain and Sweden's ITF best and let me assure you the blood flies at a higher level.> Now tosh spice u r speaking truth...i wasn't telling them may be find it too offensive my teacher fighting in world champ against No 1 fighter(damn wat was his name, he was 3 time world champ, not long back around 1997 or 98) who broke his nose, then again in another championship(asia pacific) he broke it again ...lol now he himself tells proudly about that... he calls them "Medals", he's sure very funny guy -TkdWarrior-
It depends what weight category your on about for me the guy I like watching the most is probably Neil Ernest here is is knocking out on eof my students in the first 7 seconds of the bout http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~jnm/timohdear.jpg This was the UKTA Welsh Open 1999 open comp. Tim got K'O'ed and then DQ'd for not being able to continue.... Now stop me if I'm wrong but is that one of these backs kicks ITF sparring doesn't include?? :woo:
that looks like perfect scoring shot... kicks at the back of body is treated as foul...can see why he got KO`ed.. -TkdWarrior-
If you want to see some other gruesome images of "soft" ITF TKD then please visit http://hwuts.co.uk and click on Gallery Viking Cup 2001 There are a couple of great photos of the results of world class "soft" ITF TKD... P.s. ..... can you tell I'm angry at the "soft" comment yet??? Taekwon!
ckdstudent wrote: <I've never quite understood this philosophy, there's no way a white belt can understand and perform things like twisting kick effectively with no prior training, and mistakes will creep in which will last a long time. Why not start simple and build up? If you go to a maths lesson and you've never done maths before you don't really expect them to be starting on integration before explaining addition.> That's what practice and a good instructor is for If you make a mistake, a good instructor will notice it and correct it. What I learned as far as self defense at white belt in TSD, was basic grab releases, wrists locks, basic pressure points, ect. It was really basic stuff. But that basic stuff is what this TKD school teaches. That's it (minus the pressure points)! Take-downs at red belt (which I learned already in TSD). Tosh Spice wrote: <I mean can you honetsly expect a white belt to effectively use complex grabs against an opponent who doesn't leave him/herself open for the techinque?? > No, but it can be taught, then practiced over and over till they get it right. Which is what my TSD instructor did. Besides the basics, he would let us do other stuff just for the sake of trying it. Maybe I learned quicker than most. I picked up on the stuff very quickly (with no prior experience). <IMO coloured belt in TKD is where you learn the letters of the TKD alphabet. A B C D..... Once you get to black belt you learn to start reading.> What happens when one learned how to read in another style before black? Is that a bad thing?
Wouldn't it be easier though to get one technique right first, or a handful, and then move on to the next few rather than just dumping the lot on someone at once? Better one good technique than fifty poor ones.
Sorry to cut in! Sad old git that I am, but I was digging thru some old MA mags, and came across an article from 1991, that General Choi was going to jail for an attempted assassination. Was this a gag, or something that really happened?
Correction..... not Choi, but his son! From 'COMBAT Sep 1991' T.K.D. Founders Son Gets Prison Sentence! Although all the facts are not quite known yet, it seems that General Choi Hong Hi's (Founder of Taekwondo) son, Choi Choong Hwa has been sentenced to a six year prison term by Canadian authorities for planning the assasination of the South Korean President, Chung Doo Hwan, during a state visit to the Phillipines in the early 1980's. It has beeen said that the sum of $600,000 was arranged for the two Canadian hired killers. After residing in Poland Choi Choong Hwa returned to Canada in February 1991 and pledead guilty as charged.
