Leave God out of the tsunami (from a non-believer)

I've shown my cards a lot in this forum and anyone should know I strongly don't believe in religion, but I can still appreciate this article written about the recent disaster:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=9005646

Folks, I don't want to be one of those atheists "waving the burial shrouds of victims like debating trophies" (in the words of the Times). I've noticed a few people bring up the idea of "how can God allow the tsunami" argument, but the article really made me think.

If your faith is shaken by pointless deaths from a tsunami you need to ask yourself why your faith isn't shaken every time a child dies of cancer. And if you don't believe in religion/god, just consider the fact that the recent tsunami doesn't make your case any stronger.

Peace

 

Unfortunately, things like these just happen, and it very well may be that a butterfly just south of Spain was a little overzealous with the wing-flapping. It's not as if there's nothing people can do: I heard on the news about one guy who survived because he remembered a particular characteristic of pre-tsunami flood patterns that he read about in a Discover magazine. Managed to save twenty or so people, too.

 

People who say "how can God allow so much death" need to look at the good side of it. Yes, there is a good side, as stupid as it sounds. Notice how all the countries of the world are getting together to help the victims now?

I'm not saying God did or did not cause the tsunami, simply that the arguement of "How can God allow it" is stupid.

PL

 

I believe in God.

I do not believe he is in control of everything.

I think he COULD be in control of everything but he isn't. If he was in control of everything that would make him a dictator since he would be controlling our thoughts aswell.

 

I believe in God, I believe he is in control of everything. In regards us he gave us freewill so we can make our own decisions and command our own life......but to say he isnt in control of us is slightly incorrect as he holds our life in his hands.....1 'squeeze' theres no more silatpupil......

But Im a believer, and dont flame me for it, as normally happens when I post near any topic religion related

 

My two penn'orth...

If there is a God who created the world then He created nature and He doesn't interfere with it - for good or for bad. He let's it take it's course. Praying for rain is pointless, praying for sunshine is pointless, praying for deliverence from hurricane or tidal wave is pointless. God does not interfere. (Except to part the Red Sea, but He never made a habit of it, and He doesn't do stuff like that any more anyway. ) Blaming God is futile. He didn't cause the tsunami. Nature did. He just didn't step in and prevent it. That's not what He does, and we must accept it.

If, on the other hand, there is no God, then nature behaves in exactly the same way as if there was a God who doesn't interfere with it.

Either way, we must accept that there are aspects of nature which are dangerous. It's a complete system - earthquakes and hurricanes are just as much part of the system as gentle breezes and warm sunny days. To wish it were another way is to wish you lived in a different world.

 

i was listening to a hindu leader on radio 2 yesterday and what he said was quite good, he said look at this as a natural disaster and the god is in the hearts and eyes of everyone that died which means he is bearing the biggest loss of us all.

Quite a nice piece i thought.

 

Or maybe God just doesn't like us and he enjoys doing thigs like this.

 

Yeah those posts pretty much go along with my understanding of the theology of bad things, as it were.
There's also the notion of an afterlife from a religous way of thinking- God doens't do anything because he knows something we don't that makes this ok.
Or the old mother's philosophy: "When your number's up, it's up, and when it isn't, it isnt, and there's no point in worrying about it".

 

maybe a god does exist. to all the cells in our body we are god, just like all of us cells in god's body (if there is a god). we care little if some cells die, but i'm sure nearby cells miss their neighbour, but still we care very little. how god views us might be the same

 

SilatPupil... I have a question.

If I have free will as you say, how can God be in control of EVERYTHING ? I am not flaming you here, I am genuinly interested in how you can reason this..

Lets say I decide I am going to kill Mr.X today. Since it is my decision and I have free will until I die, therefore God cannot prevent my will.

Thus God doesn't have control over Mr.X's life. The only way he can stop Mr.X from dying is by either changing my free will or killing me first, which would be against my will.

If God is in control of everything, then everything is predetermined, and thus we have no free will.

If you can refute that logically, I am all ears

 

No, they don't.

 

You asked someone religious to explain their beliefs logically.... LOL, Yeah... Good luck with that one.

 

Alright. Logically within the context then

 

What context?

Explain logically within an illogical context?

Hmmmm.... what is wrong with this picture?

 

Point well made! Sounds horrid but its natures balance! It dosnt choose who gets caught in these disaster! Its just wrong place wrong time! Just goes to show how much we take for granted when things like this happens!

 

I don't see anything contradictory about SilatPupil's post. As I understood it, he said that God has the power to control our lives and everthing else in this world, but chooses not to. Therefore we are left to excercise free will, just as nature is left to follow it's own patterns.

Whether you believe that to be true or not, I don't think you can say that it is illogical.

 

lol - Ive just come back to this post and I see the damage ive caused...hehehehehe

BendzR - Maybe you get up and decide that you wanna Kill Mr.X .... ok fair enough......you go looking for him......you cant find him. He decided to take the day off work and go on a random shopping spree ..... natural decision or divine intervention?

Or maybe its Mr.X's time to go.......you find him...kill him. hes dead. ok - why? because YOU decided, or because God decided Mr X. had to die, What if youd not found him, or couldnt do it......you think if God wanted him dead, he couldnt just hit him with a bus? or a heart attack?

Now dont get me wrong here.....im not saying God is making us kill each other!!!!! That is wrong and I firmly dont believe it, but what Im trying to do is provide you with hypothetical anecdotes that will attempt to stimulate your mind into seeing alternative paths/reasons in EVERYTHING we do. Fate? possibly. Divine intervention? Possibly. Neither? Possibly.

We, as humans are not intelligent enough to understand the origins/passings/ending of all things, therefore any opinion we have is systematically flawed. It amounts only to speculation, until we experience it. In which instance we cannot pass on the knowledge as we are dead.

Now you see why Ive been avoiding Religious debates?!!!

 

SilatPupil,

Do you think that God made you write that last post, or do you think you did it from your own free will?

 

He inspired my free will to write it....