Yeah it's something others call you, not something you call yourself. I'd be interested in finding out more about this handshake thing because, thinking about it, having a junior grade use both hands whilst the senior has one free actually makes a little sense and is similar to certain ways of performing a seated bow to a senior.
Never come across this one. Some students when entering our dojang bow. We have never been asked to do this and I don’t do it. I don’t see the point. If the instructor asks me to do this I will do as requested but they have never asked and they know I don’t do it. One of the things that really annoys me is calling seniors “sir” or “miss” – I think this distinction should be reserved for my elders, I do address my instructors as such but feel a little silly doing it. Baza
And a lot of foreign exponents of Japanese arts try to out-Japan the Japanese and really over-do the etiquette or even create etiquette where none existed. I do a Kyokushin offshoot and have never encountered this double hand shake thing. And we osu and bow all over the shop.
Funnily enough I have always bowed in and out of the Dojo and also before and after going on the mat for competitions. Ous was a staple of my Shotakan club and also Jujitsu club. When i went to my Wado club I clocked up enough push ups to last me till I die as they consider it rude and we was only allowed to say Hai. I realise that etiquete changes from dojo to dojo as well as style to style. I agree with Rhythm Killer my elders get the respect that is due to them as that was how I was brought up. I have met some kyu grades that would hand your backside to you on a plate when it come to kumite and would never say to them they should show me respect becuase of my grade. I used to fight blackbelts as a yellow and orange belt and they would shake my hand and say how much they enjoyed fighting me whether they had one or lost. It was a mutual respect. I think that was why I found this bloke pretentious.
Not something I've come across, though I have seen other orgs do it. In class my students tend to refer to me as "Sir." I've never insisted on this but they are expected to do address examiners at gradings as "Sir", and the kids especially found it hard to turn that courtesy on or off. As a result some of my black belts suggested that we start doing it in class to get them in the habit and we've adopted it. I don't derive my sense of self-worth from stuff like this and was frankly a little uncomfortable with it, but it does seem to have helped with etiquette at gradings. I do like people to stop and bow when entering the room we train in, but that's more about marking the transition from out of class to class time, especially for the kids. We also bow at the start and finish of class, again as a moment of marking the start/finish of training. The whole class bows to me and I bow to the whole class. Then I make them stand there and listen to terrible jokes for 20 minutes Mitch
In the end it's mostly about the etiquette in the current gym, isn't it? In my JJ class we bow when we enter/ leave the gym, when we get on/ off the mat, when we play uke to the teacher, ... but we only call the teachers by their first names. In my HKD class there are hardly any etiquette. We have a short meditation at the beginning in the end, and bow once to our training partners after (for example) kick training. When I bowed Monday before leaving the mat the coach passed me and told me: There's no one there! So in case in that gym they want you to shake hands with both of your hands - I'd just live with it and do it, if everything else was to my liking.
My two cents, worthless though they are. If its his dojo, its his rules and traditions that need to be followed. It doesnt matter what you did before in other styles. If he said you had to hop into the dojo on one leg, then you gota do it to learn from the guy. If you arent confortable with these traditions find another class, but if you cant put up with that type of thing, in my opinion you are in the wrong martial art. My sensei used insist on respect, keep our eyes forward, but also call us names and joke around with us, say we were sissies etc, jab us in the ribs and stuff. Some didnt like it so left. I came from a school where bullying was all over, so it was water off a ducks back, nothing but harmless fun. On another note great picture PASMITH. He's the best character in jaws "Farewell and edeu, to you spanish ladies"
I think when we get to that stage it isn't lack of humility we should be concerned with but rather a distinct lack of "Self Respect" Baza
I agree to an extent , but its a sad fact that if you want to learn at a certain institution you have to follow there laws of conduct. I went to a school in south africa, where whenever a teacher walked by, even outside of class, and in the play ground, you had to stand up and greet them, also no matter how hot it was you could not take off your school blazer. Non sensical rules, but if you didnt follow them you were punished.
Can't see myself doing it somehow and i'd never "bend on knee" to anyone for that matter. In TKD seniors bow just as lower grades and if that etiquette needs to be observed then in my opinion it is acceptable but when it gets to rediculous stages i'd have to "bow" out. Baza
Except the guy in question isn't one of the instructors and, as far as I can tell, seems to be the only person who suggested it had to be done that way. So it could be that person being a pompous windbag, it could be he genuinely believes that how the tradition should be, who knows?
I liked Mitch's post. I think that hits the overall distinction for me. Every class has its rituals, some more than others. But the question is this: Are these rituals being conducted in support of the class or in support of some individual's ego? In this particular case, it sounds like the comment was mostly made in aid of one person's ego. But the bigger question, to me, is whether various rituals have any place at all. I think the benefit of ritual is that it puts you in a certain mindset. I don't mind bowing to other people, because the meaning that I've tied to it in my head isn't "I'm subservient to this individual." It's that I'm acknowledging that I still have a lot to learn in a more general sense. A willingness to set your ego aside and open yourself up to the possibility of learning something. If that guy gets some high off of my bowing to him, that's his shortcoming. Not mine. What I get from it is a sort of psychological queue that I'm a student right now. And I'm not going to undermine that just to avoid catering to some clown's ego. If I undermine my own efforts because I'm so worried about him, then I've given him precisely the level of influence over me that I was rebelling against so hard to begin with. If you're going to adhere to the ritual, do it for your own ends and because it supports the environment. Cast the rest of it aside. That's an aspiration. Not something I succeed in doing every time.
Specifically ITF-C/V/NK, or an independent? This is the handshake I'm referring to: Never did it in the TAGB, btw.
I believe there are many different traditions behind the handshake at the end of class. As already mentioned by others, your classmates are your enemy in class. At the end, you shake hands as a sign that there is no ill will... then you are friends again. This is the philosophy we follow. This hand shake can be one handed, two handed, or even just a monk salute. We just follow lead and it doesn't matter to us which one is used. The proper etiquette for the two handed handshake is for the higher rank to place his/her hand on top of the hands. My instructor doesn't like this and always puts his hand on the side, equal with others. Similar to the "not lowering the eyes when bowing", we use the handshake to show we have no weapons. This is different if you actually do have a weapon. So for us, it is important before the handshake to show the hands so that it is clear there is no weapon. There is a pecking order, so with lower ranks, I'll sometimes half-speed kick them in small intestine or thrust a training knife during the handshake just to see if they are paying attention. I've had someone jump me from behind and try to put me in a choke hold in a similar situation. All part of training. It can be easy to be distracted by etiquette and forget that there is the martial aspects behind it.
I have never been subjected to or heard of this handshake ritual. I bow to the instructor and he bows back.
