Kyokushin or MMA?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by yingyangzen, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. yingyangzen

    yingyangzen Valued Member

    I've been doing Martial arts for several years and I am looking for a new Challenge. People have said do MMA others have said do Kyokushin. I come from styles that really focus on Honor, Discipline, Compassion and control. Being taught that Fighting is a last resort and to never draw your sword unless it was to kill and thats it. You never saw 2 samurai's sword fighting for money or beating someone on the ground. As someone who has devoted him self to traditional styles and the principles of martial arts.. I feel like Kyokushin would be a better fit. MMA I love to watch but when someone asks me why dont I do it...I get this ugly feeling as if...It goes against everything I have been taught, the principles, the spiritual part, the honor. I feel like martial arts is not about getting that lucky punch, or somehow getting your opponant on the ground and smashing his face in with my fist or elbow...I dont see any honor in if this was a life and death situation then ok I can see why its applied your trying to survive and live another day so all is fair in love and war and you gotta do what you gotta do. I'm Not bashing MMA, I would like someone to help me to understand why I feel the way I do..Why do I feel like MMA undermines what people have spend 20yrs or more in traditional styles practicing...Why do the fights look like something you see at a Bar or street fight? I feel like a Kyokushin Fighter would totally go through your avarage MMA fighter especially in a stand up fight...I get tired of seeing people roll around...For example Boxing...12 rounds of pure heart to heart nonstop battling hand to hand...Again I'm not bashing MMA I just feel bitter about it, I love to watch but I'm not convince it would be for me, I feel like anyone can call themselves an MMA fighter I feel like anyone can be an MMA fighter where as Kyokushin Idk, I dont believe anyone can be a Kyokushin karateka... Kyokushin seem to have the Honor and the traditional spirit of fight and defense. I feel like MMA is all about MONEY and Fame for people who didnt make it in life and wanna stop working at stake and shake...Hmmm let me take a few MMA classes and do some fights maybe ill get lucky...I hate it,..So what do you think? what is your Take of Kyokushin or MMA?
  2. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    Both have their strengths and weaknesses. I am obviously a bit biased towards Kyokushin as that is my chosen system, but MMA systems have their merit too. If you are looking for a moral/philosophical aspect to your art as well as tough physical training Kyokushin could be a very good fit for you.
  3. Sketco

    Sketco Banned Banned

    What about Bas Rutten? He became an MMA fighter and is a Kyokushin blackbelt. It sounds to me like you have an issue with the brawling styles, which you can still find even if you join Kyokushin, and the ground fighting, which is a great skill set to have.

    I won't try to talk you into or out of anything. I'm just saying that I wouldn't let your biases get in the way.

    I'll tell you what I tell all newcomers looking for a style. Look around and find a good teacher in a good school with a good group to train with rath than worrying about which style you should be in.
  4. 6footgeek

    6footgeek Meow

    If something doesn't sit well with you for no reason you can justify, its good to try it out. it can clear a lot of biases and misunderstandings.
    Now i'm not saying that you should take what i wrote and get a tatoo on your crotch or eat live octopi =P

    Try MMA out if you can. You'll find out that the serious practitioners have a mindset very similar to traditional ones. Just with a more modern flavour =)
  5. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Generally this attitude comes from not really knowing what you're looking at.
    Fedor's boxing looks friggin' sublime if you have the experience to pick out his head movement, footwork and the the way he times those overhand/russian hooks. If you don't have that, he just looks like he's swinging haymakers and you might attribute to his knockouts to power instead of his ability to read and time his opponents.

    As for the groundwork, if you don't understand what it takes to set up and execute a jointlock or kimura sweep, all that registers to you is that the guy on the bottom grabbed the other guy's arm, and they rolled over. Maybe the first guy twisted the second guy's arm afterwards and won. You'd miss head movement that set up the grips, you'd miss the hip movement and footwork that provide the drive for the sweep, you'd miss the attempt to base by the defender, you'd be blissfully unaware of the handfight and angles battle between the two competitors that ultimately decides the jointlock. It'd just look like rolling around.

    Many people have eyes for snappy, esoteric poses and straight-edged or long and swooping motions. That's obvious and interesting. Few people have eyes for a counterjab or the unbalancing that precedes a big throw or decisive reversal. It looks like it "just happened" to them, and they chalk the matches up to strength or luck.
  6. Dave76

    Dave76 Valued Member

    Sounds like you've already decided.
  7. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    You may want to look at the history of the Samurai a little closer.

    Which arts do you study at the moment?
  8. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    would LOVE to know who's kool aid you've been which martial arts you have studied ?

    the reason for all of the above is a serious lack of education.

    because you have so little an understanding of full contact fighting that you can't discern what a fight between two skilled athletes and a bar brawl looks like !

    anyone can be a Kyokushin Karateka don't talk nonsense, they have to be dedicated and disciplined if they ever want to be a good one but anyone can walk in of the street and attend classes, they wont be thrown out because the instructor doesn't like the way they dress, MMA is EXACTLY the same.

    where are these opinions coming from ? do you have any idea how one in a million good you have to be to make a living of off MMA, and even if you are its very unlikely you'll ever make enough to live comfortably never mind being rich.

    honestly that this is utter tripe your typing, how did you come to these conclusions ? do you have any idea the sacrifice, work, discipline it takes to even get on the lowest level of show ? do you have any idea how hard you are tested mentally even just training in a full contact combat sport ? to degree's the so called "honourable" arts could never push you too. I also think you have clearly already made your mind up to do kyokushin so what was the point of this thread ? and by the by you may not find kyokushin as fluffy (or traditional if you prefer) as you think.

    Now a question for you what exactly makes one type of organized, recreational violence seem any more honourable and disciplined than another ?
    Id love someone to try and convince me its anything more than the wearing of 18 century Japanese track suits and the use of foreign terms and titles.
  9. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    and yes another great point. Got to stop drinking that eastern philosophy kool aid.
  10. yingyangzen

    yingyangzen Valued Member

    This is all really great stuff, Thank you all for replying...Like I said I am not bashing MMA at all I love to watch...but when it comes to actually making this something I do on the regular like I have done with other styles I have practiced it just doesnt seem as take an MMA fight and compare it to a Kyokushin fight...One looks like a **** fight the other one looks....I dont know more Traditional and honorable...Maybe its because they are wearing Gi's Idk...I have taken a class or 2 just to see for myself.. and I have faught several MMA fighters however I dont think they were professionals at what they do...Currently right now I am studying Isshin Ryu, I have been for the last 13yrs. I studied boxing, I did kick boxing as well.. I have been taken to the ground several times and I kept striking and eventually I got back to a standing position. I am a striker...I depend on speed, skill and power...timing and countering is everything for me..5'7 130 pounds It takes more than brute strength to win a fight and I cant have anything slowing me down...I like everything that you guys have posted...I am here to learn...not to bash anyone even though it comes off that way because of the way I am expressing myself. I like to see everyone's opinion and what everyone else thinks, I take no critizem to heart. There are no hard feelings with me..So speak your mind freely = ) As far as the Samurai go...Maybe I should do my research a little deeper, however I cant see them fighting in a ring the same way MMA fighters do...I dont know it doesnt seem like it would be there cup of tea lolol. but I could be totally wrong..
  11. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Well as they are all dead you are probably right....
  12. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker


    the Keikogi, the earliest precursor to what we know as a gi is what maybe a little more than a 150 years old ? was developed for Judo and most karate was done in everyday clothing until the turn of the century. Lets compare that with say MMA as a sport in the various iterations its had until modern time, I wonder how far back that will take us ?




    pretty darn long ago as it turns out !

    well that's the "its more traditional" fluffy little view point blown out of the water for the 1000th time, now if we could just get to the bottom of why what gear the type of recreational violence requires you to wear makes it more or less "honourable".
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
  13. yingyangzen

    yingyangzen Valued Member

    @1888, lololol I can understand your fustration, I'm sure I sound like an idiot and the point of my thread was to see the opinions of other fighters and martial artist. We are all students are we not? We all have some learning to do...I dont know it all and none of us ever will... and sure it may look or appear as lack of education or what not based on everything I said. But truth be told there are many people who feel the same way I feel and there are many people who feel the same way you do..and I havent made up my mind although yes I am leaning more torwards the Kyokushin...I ask you and anyone else dont be so quick to get offended...Lets keep this chit chat friendly = ) and help me to understand your point of view without being rude...if i am preaching ignorance...preach me intelligence. = )
  14. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    fair enough but you still haven't given my question a pop, why is partaking in recreational violence wearing a piece of cloth shaped into a kimono any more honourable than doing it in a pair of shorts ?
  15. yingyangzen

    yingyangzen Valued Member

    @ 1888, you know, thats a good question and I really dont know...If I dont know something I am going to tell you I dont know...I am as real and honest as well...I just keep it real and honest.. I have no Idea... I want to understand my own outlook and why I feel bitter about MMA...I hate the fact that I look down on it even though I love to watch it when my fav. fighters are fighting. In regards to your question it isnt any less honorable..It shouldnt matter what your wearing to be real about it. From Greeks, to Gladiators back in rome, it didnt matter what you were wearing it was about survival. But there was a code or creed wasnt there? Honor? and what is exactly is that? what does it mean to the average person these days...Is there honor in beating someone on the floor? or is it honorable to let him get up and send him back you follow? or am I missing something?
  16. 6footgeek

    6footgeek Meow

    well. technically. nearlly all martial arts were MMA waaaay back.

    boxing was always paired with wrestling.
    Judo had strikes
    karate had throws and grappling.

    nearly all martial arts incorporated the three levels of a fight back then.

    The specialisations of different arts came with development of military technology and when sport replaced war. Am i right?
  17. 6footgeek

    6footgeek Meow

    There is no honour, or any justification even in beating someone HELPLESS on the ground who is UNABLE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES.

    MMA Fighters though do not fall in that category. Many of them are the most DANGEROUS on the ground.
  18. yingyangzen

    yingyangzen Valued Member

    BTW, I am not asking what HONOR is as if I do not know...but I get the feeling it means something totally different to other fighters and martial artist. To me Honor is all about respect...Fairness..and I cant sit there and beat a man on the floor I rather let him get up and show why hes the better fighter..
  19. yingyangzen

    yingyangzen Valued Member

    And again I gotta thank you all this is all beautiful stuff please keep the replies coming...and remember if i am preaching ignorance.. preach me intelligence...we are all students here...

    @6footgeek, what you say makes sense I like that. = )
  20. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    yep as has been pointed out your missing the technical intricacies required to be successful in ground grappling and the thousands of hours it takes of practise, dedication and discipline to become skilful enough to implement them.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012

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