Hello Kuk Sool'ers, I was reading elsewhere and was told that WKSA has or is in the process of copyrighting their hyung, so non-members must practice/teach forms that are 30% different...is there any official story to this, or any truth? How can a physical movement be copyrighted? I thought I heard of ATA doing this, but Im not sure...Very Curious... Kahmsahamnida... --josh
I have not heard anything about Kuk Sool doing this. I have heard of dance choreographers wanting to do this so they could protect their new moves. Is it even possible to do this yet? Considering the number of people practicing Kuk Sool not associated with the WKSA that already know and practice these forms, I would imagine that in their present form they would not be copyrightable. That would mean they would have to be significantly changed so they are "new" and that would just suck. I can't think of a worse reason to change a form.
Here is an interesting thought : http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/07/opinion/edmehta.php What think you? I personally am really irritated by this. --josh
Considering that one can copyright a mathematical process and certain genes, I wouldn't be surprised about being able to copyright anything. I guess if a hyung is copyrighted, then if you perform it in public, it would have to be with permission, and a fee paid, just like with music. You can sing any Beatles song you want in the shower. You start performing them or put them in a commercial, and Michael Jackson (doesn't he own the Beatles songs?) will want his cut. If hyung can be copyrighted, the people that will affect are school owners who are not in the Won. I would think that it would have to be demonstrated that Kuk Sa Nim did something creative with the hyung, negating the entire idea of Kuk Sool Won being a traditional Korean Martial Art. It seems to me that the technique organization could be copyright, and any technique or form originating with an active student of Kuk Sa Nim could be copyright. That does cover some of the KSW forms and techniques.
so lets cut to the chase is this about money or power? theese are the only 2 reasons for copyrighting a hyung that i can think of.
There is a thing called dance annotation that is used in conjunction with, and is similar to music scores, that define when and what movements occur for ballet/dance etc. This type of thing "could" be done for MA/ksw, but it would require cataloging all of the potential positions for hyung and possibly creating a rhythm/cadence to hyung. Then it would have to be scripted on paper for every hyung in ksw and then the patent/copyright application can be filed. Once done then the many legal battles would begin. The first hurdle would be proving that the movements are originated by wksa. This may or may not be hard. Then the tough part begins. WKSA would have to actively seek out, catch them in the act (like on film) and prosecute EVERY non wksa entity that is using "their" hyung. and constantly protect it. Remember, if you do not prosecute EVERYONE that is violating the copyright, then you cannot prosecute anyone. Selective enforcement is not possible. The cost of this part would be HUGE. and impossible to enforce outside the U.S. I can't imagine that WKSA is looking to spend that kind of money. especially considering the # of times WKSA changes hyung. Where did you hear about this kidosool?
I would think that in order to prove copyright they would have to prove creation and ownership. I'm not sure that would be such a great idea.
You are correct Ithink it would be great for wksa if it were possible. I just don't know if it is possible. or if it is...then is it worth it.
Don't copyrights work like patents though? That is, you patent something while it is your secret and then you sell it. Depending on jurisdiction you might get a little time, like a year, to do the patent after the idea has been publicly disclosed. If copyrights follow the same pattern, then it has been far too long for the association to copyright them now.
IIRC, copyrights are more like 75 years, and they can be renewed by the author and/or the author's estate. Patents are intended to work like you say, to give the inventor a head start, but I think I've heard some things about extensions or such, not sure.
Due too Mickey Mouse, copyrights last a very long time now. But that is not the issue. Let's say you wrote a book and never copyrighted it, but that is available to the public. How long after you made it available could you still copyright it?
Copyright and trademark laws are interesting in that you are entitled to copyright protection even if you don't register the copyright. Therefore, you don't need to register the copyright at all to have copyright protection. As a practical matter, you should be able to obtain a registered trademark years after the creation of a work, although I have not put this to practice. However, it is a good idea to register a copyright if you think your "work" has some value. In addition to some extra legal protections, registration also acts as evidence that what you claim as yours, really is your work. I have heard that some talk about WKSW registering its techniques, hyung, etc. for copyright protection. I am presuming that this is just a rumor and that even if KSN had a mind to do so, his lawyers would have told him to forget the idea. An example was given regarding yoga. In that case, moves were not being registered, but certain products and identifying marks for certain organizations were.
I can only speak for US copyright law, I don't know that much about international laws and laws in other countries. And as well, IANAL, and much of this is based upon the classes I took back in undergrad so many years ago. So, if something can be copyrighted it technically is copyrighted from the moment it was conceived and "published". What y'all are talking about is the registration of copyright. Registration is a useful thing because it puts it into greater public record, and then you have a better leg to stand on if things go to court. Plus registration helps you in international affairs. For example, I've written and released a lot of source code to the world. As soon as I wrote and published it (e.g. put it on my website for folks to download, share and enjoy), it was protected by copyright. HOWEVER, I have never registered my source code copyrights. So technically the USPTO has no record of what I did. For me, I didn't care. I didn't want the paperwork or hassle, the source code wasn't that important, and I was releasing it as open source, thus free as in beer and speech... so there wasn't much financial interest to protect. However, it's still my ownership, my copyright, my property. If I did have to go to court for some reason I might have a tougher time demonstrating that it's mine, but I didn't see that happening. Plus, the Internet is such a joyous thing since it's hard for things to die out there, much proof of my code existence. So as for the hyung copyright. By extension, I'd say that if the hyung were something you could copyright, it already would be by this common law notion of copyright. Now, if copyrighting the hyung were something desired (and possible), registration of that copyright would be something in an organization's best interest because of the business, power, and worldwide impact. I'm not saying WKSA is doing it (I have no idea what they're doing regarding this, if anything), but it'd be in their best interest then to register that copyright so they could better handle legal matters regarding it. Choi is right as well. If you have a patent or trademark or servicemark or copyright, you must defend it else you lose it. It's a massive undertaking to do that, and probably not really worth it unless a lot of money was on the line. Duration of copyright depends on the mode of creation (personal work, work-for-hire, corporate ownership). But US copyright law is certainly going in such a way that copyrights will never expire and the public domain will eventually run dry. Thank you Disney.
