Hi All, Just wanted to pick everyones thoughts on the Daido Juku (Kudo) Space helmet. My background is predominantly Taekwondo based (5th Dan) but have fused other arts that I've trained and currently training in such as Mauy Thai clinch work and the Grappling from Brazilian Juijitsu into the system to make it well rounded. In short its a mixed system with a tradiional martial arts background on the same lines as Machida Karate / Kudo / Gong Kwon Yusul to make a comparison! We have been using the Kudo Headgears but have come up with a few issues. Cons 1 They are quite pricey - Playwell are the cheapest that I can find! 2 Allot of students find them quite claustrophobic and cant wear them. 3 They steam up! (If you put washing up liquid on the inside this seems to sort that out though) 4 Very hard to breath 5 Fall off when grappling 6 Starting to fall apart after 6 months use 7 Can only do 3 x 5 Minute rounds max in them before completely gassed Pros 1 Can attack the head with harder contact without facial injury 2 Good for self defence clinch training with the use of head-butts elbows and knees Has anyone used these head-gears? I'd like to know your thoughts! Also does anyone else blend the grappling arts with the striking arts, if so, how do you train it, what safety equipment do you use and what contact levels? This is the rule set we use without the headgear: Striking Standing Punches to Head allowed Light - Medium Contact Punches to body allowed Light - Medium Contact Leg Kicks allowed Light - Medium Contact Body Kicks Allowed Light - Medium Contact Head Kicks Allowed including face Light - Medium Contact Knees to body & legs allowed Light - Medium Contact Striking in Clinch Knees and Punches to body only Light - Medium Contact Striking on Ground Knees and Punches to body Light - Medium Contact Knees to legs Punches to Head Light contact Grappling No Neck Cranks No Twisting Leg locks No Slamming on head No Biting, Groin attacks eye attacks etc etc No Small joint Manipulation If anyone has any thoughts I'd be very interested to here them. Regards Steve Greenaway
I have one. Can't stand it. It is only good for strikes to the face - anywhere else and there is almost zero impact reduction. I far prefer using High Gear headgear.
The £several hundred price differential is a factor though I use them and have found them quite good, but we wear quite thickly padded MMA gloves with them for exactly the reason JWT mentions. You can get sprays to stop visors misting from motorcycle shops that work well on them. Can I ask what other sources you've found for them Toe Job and were the helmets any different? Having watched a number of Sensei Hasdell's vids on youtube the Playwell helmets look llike a cheap copy of the proper Kudo helmets. Mitch Edit to add: You're doing some interesting stuff Steve, good to hear
Hi TKDMitch I have been trying different types of equipment for about 6 months now. Started off with a normal dip foam head gear with face mask, these arn't too bad but i found that the perspex faceplate obscured my vision, the other problems were it came off whilst grappling and in the Thai clinch it nearly always was pulled off, So that was no good. Tried the Playwell Kudo headgear but found it hard to use for the reasons stated in my first post, To be honest there isnt really allot to choose from and I think there is a definite gap in the market for a full face protector that is functional and easy to use. The vison isnt too bad with the Kudo one but its so hard to breathe its unreal, For example, I can normally spar for a good 5-6 x 3 minute rounds not a problem, in that headgear i am puffed after 2 rounds. I've found these but haven't got a sample yet http://www.alibaba.com/product/jp101138634-104540775-101212182/K_Protector_Head_Guard.html http://www.kw2.com.hk/companyprofile.php
The one in the first link look more like the newer kudo masks I've seen on youtube clips etc, they seem to have more of an open area at the bottom of the faceplate, a bigger gap between visor and the helmet bit. Don't know if that's any better? Your point about the dipped foam ones with visors attached coming off in the clinch is exactly why I haven't bought any, I thought that would happen. It needs a Top Ten style helmet with visor, not a dipped foam Tsport style. I might make the time to go train with Sensei Hasdell as he's trying to get Kudo off the ground in the UK, he will probably have the proper kit and so be able to recomend a supplier as he's their official UK representative. Thanks for the links, appreciate it! let me know if you get hold of the k protectors, be interesting to see what you think. Mitch Edit to add: How does their pricing work? Is that 19000 yen per helmet? £140+? Eek!
I find that my issue with the Kudo type is 1. There is insufficient padding for the head. 2. The fastenings are weak and the thing tends to come off or break in headlocks and generalised grappling. 3. The rim of the visor is particularly nasty to hit and be hit on since force is transferred directly to the skull as if no helmet were worn. I've never had a major problem with steaming. For me the visor is a must as we train to put our fingers into the face and eyes, and I won't risk cage visors because of the dangers of fingers getting trapped in training. I still believe that the way forward is a proper padded headguard with a flat curved visor that sits slightly forward of the face, like a riot helmet.
JWT Yes completely agree, I like the look of the new design Kudo Headgear, far too pricey though for the regular student, hopefully we will be seeing more variety of products on the market soon.
Hi there. Is there anything new on that subject? I'm also looking for a full face headgear that would allow full contact without cuts, broken noses and other face and head injures. I have also looked at the Kudo headgear. Some say the new style is much better others say they still prefer the old style. Also, the High Gear head guard looks interesting, if not too much like a motorcycle helmet. I wonder how is visibility in it? There are of course several metal cage style ones but fingers can be a problem, unless sparring using boxing gloves, which kinds of defeats the need for the cage and do not allow grappling. And when it comes to clear plastic I believe it has to be a full bubble style as I have seen one of the plastic cage style ones being shattered by a full power strike to the face. But what with the nose bar boxing style ones like the Winnings headgear? It seems they would protect the nose and face well, although visibility would probably not be that good but it doesn't seem any worse than the High Gear headgear for that though. Have you found anything new in the mean time Steve? What are you using at the moment? JWT, it would be interesting to hear more about your experience with the High Gear headgear as you are one of the only people I could find who seem to have used one. Thanks in advance guys.
I'm sure JWT will comment and he has much more experience of the High Gear than I do, but when I've used it I've found that it does limit visibility. The visor sits away from the face and has plenty of support around it. This means you can take some heavy blows to it, but the trade off is the limit to vision. You can see how relatively small the aperture is in the pic below. The other problem with the High Gear is the cost; the imitation Kudo gear I'm using is around the £40/£50 mark, a lot less than High Gear. The High Gear is significantly more protective though. Mitch
Rado, Currently using a regular Full closure Boxing head gear with 10oz Boxing gloves, We are currently separating the stand up and grappling programs at the moment, this seems to be working well.
Yeah, I thought it was very restrictive in terms of vision. It seems quite heavy too. No wonder it protects well, it's pretty much a motorcycle helmet. By the way, that's some gear you guys have there in that picture. Looks more like riot gear than anything else. Are those weighted vests? Or what kind of suits? What type of training were you doing there? Thanks.
Those are the full High Gear suits. They belong to JWT and the pic is from a training session with him. He does pure self defence based training, leading to scenario based stuff, and very good it is too Mitch
Hi The High Gear full armour you see there isn't heavy. It weights only about 7lbs. The problem is that it is bulky, and I personally don't like it for fighting on the ground. In standup work it is okay, but I feel that there is too much protection on the torso which can lead to heavy hits not having enough effect unless the recipient is very well trained to identify the difference the padding makes and respond accordingly. The helmets. Well they are still the best I have found on the market. They score highly on comfort to wear, easiness to clean, easiness to adjust fit and put on/take off. The setting of the front of the helmet forward of the face gives added protection to the nose (though a hard hit will cause sufficient buckling for it to touch your nose and cause a nose bleed in sensitive students). Vision wise your peripheral vision to the sides, above and below is restricted. This can be quite limiting at close range (ie within 40cm of the other person's torso) and really teaches you to watch little movements of the neck and shoulders as you cannot really see the arms. At long range and in training involving multiple people it merely teaches you to constantly scope the area. Since the visual limitation is merely an exaggeration of what could happen with high adrenaline visual distortion, I don't see it as a major problem. The only reason I only have 4 of these helmets is cost. Wearing the helmet steaming is quite rare. However, expect to get hot, quick. However, the maximum length of continuous time we might be wearing these is about 5 minutes, of which only 5 seconds to 1 minute is likely to be active. I personally find the helmet much better for groundwork than the Kudo one. It is less bulky, allows freer movement and generally stays on much better. In the picture TKDMitch posted some TKD Dan grades were doing some force on force HAOV stress inoculation training. These days I tend not to use the arm protectors at all as the little benefit they provide is outweighed by the restrictions they place on tactile sensitivity and movement.
I've only tried the kudo head gear at Mitch's training session, but I found that even with controlled face strikes, the masks flex inward and transfer a reasonable amount of the force applied to the faceplate into your nose. It might have been that we were doing predefined drills using them so there wasn't the opportunity to use guarding and distance to protect the face (or it might be that I've got an especially pointy nose...), but I reckon that in a full contact sparring situation, if they're not going to absorb lateral shock to the head and not protect your nose, they're not a whole lot of protection.
You were wearing a High Gear Helmet Moosey, and we didn't have time to adjust the fit to put it further forward of the face. One of the reasons why the helmet is designed to buckle in slightly by about 1 - 2 cm on heavy impact to the front is to mitigate the force being transferred through to the wearer's brain. The worst that can happen to the nose is a shock - it's not going to get broken.
This has me somewhat worried now, as all my japanese friends tell me they want a "tall nose" like mine, is there really the possibility of adjusting the face part to avoid such flexing and hitting the nose?
How about something like this? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/XL-Leather-Bo...vr_id=&cguid=431c650f1270a0e203634d33fedf0d6e Personally I hate headguards but I think that would be decent for heavy contact work
It looks good for head contact work. My problem is that we regularly claw into the eyes when grappling and strike towards the eyes with the fingers, so we need the eyes protected by a visor.
