I can operate like ths with feinting ok (but still with a few errors) in dojo training, but not with feinting knives/tantos - whenever I try it I pick up wooden 'cuts'. Whenever I feed my training partners feinting thrusts, I nearly always deliver wooden 'cuts', if not with the first contact, then the secondary wrist turn attack (very small movement) often picks up the wrist of their parrying/controlling hand. These are still basically thrusts, with some small varying arc/curve on them as well. This may improve with more focus, attention and training. This weeks's work (in total max 15 mins) only dealt with inside entries and non-entering evasions (simple parries to the forearm - not to the elbow joint) against single and double knive attacks with feints. Rebel's feints are the same concept as my feints. There are also nasty things like downward cross slashes fololwed immediately by upwards whip slashes. When I badger my FMA teacher to do some extra knive work like this week, I read the posts here, I think about the whole activity and look at some of the daft vids posted here and on youtube etc; the more I begin to realise how difficult it is to train meaningfully for knife defense. I can see that if I had at least 2 hours of Aikiken and associated Taijitsu, and/or at least 2 hours FMA knife drills (in its many flavours), along with regular training; it might slowly improve, but really it should be 4 hours every day, and even then you will appreciate more and more, the risks and dangers. For real, I can still see the best training resulting with keek in the breeks (not just me, pretty much anyone unless they grow up with and survive knife culture.) This can be improved with mental attitude training. All quite sobering.
This is really getting to the guts of things, so to speak. What I take from this passage, is that your sense of timing relative to the timing and tempo of his attacks, has to be better. You are handicapped by having to defend all of your body, constantly read multiple attack lines from him, spot attack lines in his errors (which he will make, unless he is an expert), manintaing a high degree of mobility in your body/footwork; to enter his defence error(s) and make your all-out attack work completly effectively with your timing and tempo - a vast ammount of mental concentration, physical effort and all-round co-ordination.
I am posting from a street scenario. NOT against a trained knife fighter. I can see no defence unarmed against a serious and expert knife fighter, Just a "truth" that must be faced. Only luck and the gods can save you then. Thankfully this rarely happens. Of course if you happen to be a more experienced knife fighter etc Knife defence= as I have posted. Defence against an expert knife fighter= whole new ball game that I have luckily never encountered.
This is being realistic. However 2 caveats. 1) the street thug wanting to give you a sewing-machine, just so happens to be an ex soldier who has recently seen a lot of real nasty action in Afghanistan, but got kicked out for drugs/brutality/whatever, and is wandering around Central Glasgow/wherever, doped up with his mates, and you inadvertently look at his girlfriend (or who who he wants to be his girlfriend) - she favours back to you etc; his blood boils over - knife out - action. Hypothetical - highly. Unrealistic exaggeration - not entirely. What can you do about it - not much. 2) the street thug (just average aggressive nasty geezer, nothing special)attacks you with knive(s.) your autopilot response is working very well today and you immediately control him, disarming him in the process (immediate danger nullified); but his mates are swarming around as well, some with intent, some not, but their adrenalin is not at your level yet. Even more difficulty, uncertainty and danger, making the statistics and lap of the gods factor work even harder against you.
What would you do against someone with a cut-throat razor in their lead hand and a knife in the other? Anyone?
Damm good question (and unpleasant as well.) Simple answer: do my damndest to try and stay alive/remain unscathed. More complete answer: He will be swiping at you with the lead hand, and thrusting with the second. I think the razor is a bit more restrictive than the knife, and you have a better chance of getting him on the outside with sufficient angle and depth to launch an all-out attack, otherwise inside with the rsiks and dangers that that imposes (earlier I yacked about this - it was involved and not pleasant.)
My guess would be the razor was a distraction. There is something scary about one beyond a knife that always captivate opponents.
Pretty sobering words, as usual koyo. Another thing is that you don't know if the guy is an expert or not before hand, so what ever response you have needs to apply to both cases. In sparring you can often size up your opponents, get an idea of their habits. In real situations, unless you happen to have that knowledge before hand, you only have a few moments to assess the situation and threats. I go with the most important single factor to put the odds more in your favor is going to be applicable real experience in the situation. Getting the experience and surviving is the root of the training to be prepared.
Confidence. If you spot it get out of there. Fear,'out-of-it', over aggression, mainly fear. Stick to the plan.
The good news is you know he doesn't have a gun in his other hand. Last spring we worked some drills against two weapons attacks. Check the first weapon and use it to cut/block the second weapon attack. The instructor could do it in his sleep, the majority of us couldn't get it to work maybe one out of ten times. Those that had more training with it could do it more often. If you don't have the muscle memory and timing to do it, well you probably are in the vast majority of folks. I know this doesn't directly answer the question, but basically I believe that you need to have the muscle memory (instincts) with what ever comes. And I don't mean a preset pattern, but what I mean is to act without having to think, so that your mind is free to focus on more important things than the details of a technique such as how much you are going to hurt the other guy (maybe he is just a friend or maybe he is a murderer).
That's a good point, although if you carry a gun why show a blade? The attack should come pretty much simultaneously, certainly within a second of each other. If you attack the razor you land on the knife. Good chance you don't even know the knife is there. If you don't have the muscle memory and timing to do it, well you probably are in the vast majority of folks. Fingers crossed XXX
Since we are all friends here I shall tell of one incedent. I was cut three times before I was aware of the knife. I had around a dozen stiches the girl I was aiding had upward of one hundred stiches in her face chest arms and legs. The knife " man" had a broken arm dislocated shoulder and a broken jaw plus a prison sentance. Afterwards I attempted to bring the same intensity to training with a few friends. It was just not possible. We could not deliver determind strikes without gloves nor could we simulate the " feeling" when faced with or cut with a knife. When I realised I had been cut I simply went balistic and moved faster and more determined than the guy facing me. I KNEW he was going out of the game. NO THOUGHT of defence or how. I suppose I am saying be more bloody minded than the guy facing you.That is NOT an attitude I care to live with BUT if needs be..... That is why I have a hatred of knifes and an attitude of ATTACK AT ALL TIMES preferably when he is threatening or unprepared. LITTLE OR NOTHING TO DO WITH TECHNIQUE.
Just to add some perspective, here is a video of a real knife attack against a police officer, by a suspect being searched at the station.. Note the initial reaction by the police officer.. attack occurs at approximately 3:12 into the video [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FOUn5qI6Ic"]YouTube - Policeman Faces Death[/ame]
Terrible procedure. he should have been cuffed and searched by multiple officers. The officer involved constantly took his eyes off him during the search. Assert control in general???
weird video .. shouldnt cops fully search people when their cuffed or before uncuffing them.. he uncuffs the guy and it appears he suddenly whips out a knife??
That officer should have been hauled over the coals and why in the hell was the other officer behind the desk?? Classic how NOT to get the job done.
Granted, he shouldn't have let the situation develop in the first place. However, I'm interested in his initial reaction to the knife attack which is to enter, simultaneously strike the head and control the knife hand... this is similar to some of the things we have been discussing like irimi (entering) and ken zen kobo ichi (simultaneous attack and defense)
Good on him PLUS once he had secured the knife and the guys head he should have used the guys head to knock a hole in the wall. Really surprised that a few heavy thumps did not go in there when the other officers arrived.
The officer never controlled the knife hand on entry. It is actually the wall that prevented the knife from striking him. What I see is the officer exerting control over the attacker by driving his head back. The knife control didn't happen until a few seconds later when he grabbed the knife arm and another officer disarmed the attacker. This is the difference here between an experienced and skilled knife fighter and the guy in the video. A skilled knife fighter would have cut out of having his arm grabbed. ----- I think some 20/20 hindsight reveals: 1. A visual cue gave the officer the initiative and then the officer acted off instinct/intuition. There is no technique involved except that which came instinctively. This is the 0 to 100% Koyo speaks of often. 2. Experience in the environment can help a lot. The officer used only what worked in the close in area and called for help. The response by other officers was a matter of seconds. This goes back to my beliefs that relevant experience is the most important factor. 3. When the initial attack failed by the attacker (the knife attack was inhibited by being jammed against the wall), and the officer's quick movements, etc.... the attacker was momentarily frozen (did not know what to do and hesitated). A a skilled knife fighter would likely not have hesitated and the officer would have been cut. Getting a break in combat, where the attacker is not able to attack mentally or physically, and seizing the initiative is important. This goes along with koyo's all out attack to seize the initiative. It also goes with my idea of forcing the attacker to always have to reacquire their target, thus causing them to hesitate and miss. 4. Also demonstrated is the importance to stun or unbalance the attacker on contact. 5. The situation was bad, it is best to have avoided the situation in the first place.
