Hi Everybody, I know that we are all studying different versions of Ju Jitsu some older Ryus and some more modern ones. I wanted to ask your honest opinions on the knife defences in most forms of Ju Jitsu? I feel that Ju Jitsu is a set of very useful skills applicable to most areas of self-protection, but I am slightly perturbed by some of the knife defences. Knife Defence is probably the most contentious and difficult area within Martial Arts discussion and practice. IMO most of the Knife Defences that are taught in Ju Jitsu (And Hapkido and alot of other Martial Arts for that matter), fly in the face of logic and my prior experience and I don't feel that I would ever try to use them. Has anyone ever pulled off any of these techniques (Ie Wrist lock/with throw etc) in a real situation, even with many counterstrikes/ weakeners first? What are your opinions on the knife defence techniques that you have been taught within Ju Jitsu, do you feel that they are realistic? Finally, just so that i'm clear about this. My purpose here is an ordered discussion, not to stir up a hornets nest, or slag anything off, a constructive compare and contrast of opinions and experiences would be great. Your thoughts and opinions would be appreciated.
In 27 years of MA training - the last 15 or so specialising in weapons training - the ONLY unarmed vs knife program that I've seen that works well under total resistance is Karl Tanswell's S.T.A.B. programme - it ROCKS.
If you fight against a knife you will get cut. It's just a matter of where and how deep... Sparring makes this very clear. Many of the techniques taught without a weapon involved fly in the face of logic and prior experience as well.
Hi SoKKlab, I feel much the same way. Most JJ knife defences are just hold overs from club arts!!! For knife defense they become "Oh sh** moves" as in "Oh sh**, I can't beleave this ideot is using this attack" or "Oh sh**, I have to do something, anything, just to survive." (IMO of course) I agree very much with Mr. Green, & my solution has been to take up escrima as a second art. Many things can sub for a stick and having something in your hand longer than a knife changes the odds by a whole lot. And, if not then escrima can be done open handed and is better than JJ knife defense arts alone.
I can agree to the fact that i wouldn't use the techniques that i learn to defend against knife attacks, just the simple fact that i manage to hit my friends when we train knife defence...they have been practicing ju-jutsu for 14 years now
Weapons are all ways a difficult one. I've heard some people say you should treat the knife like it was just a fist and use the same principles as for general attacks. But there is a huge psychological barrier to be overcome here. A good view and opinion that i like to teach is to try and get the attacker to overcommit with said knife by offering a target like your arm because it's far better to take a cut on your arm than in a vital organ. When i say 'offer' i don't mean hold your hand out but put your hand up as if to say 'look mate i don't want any trouble' chances are they may strike and this will be the point at which you will apply a technique that suits your style of training. I also agree with JAMJTX you do need an evasive technique don't try to intercept their attack. Use some footwork to take yourself around the attacker and away from the weapon. But the technique you use needs to be very sharp and decisive, there is no time to hang around when someone has a blade.
I'd have to disagree, there's a whole world of difference between a fist and a knife! This changes the whole dynamics of the situation. Fight or Flee? Col
the best thing you can do is to find a fast economical method to diarm the knife or neutralize the arm with the knife and work from there
Okay, All very well and good and thank you to those that have contributed so far. But if I may get this back on track, who out there has made any of the Ju Jitsu Knife disarms work in a real situation?
I've heard of it working...BUT not seen it =P. there was this one guy, a security at an abortion clinic in Los Angeles, who was attacked by an abortion extremist who was holding a scalpel and was threating everyone at the clinic. The guy squared up with him and as he lunged forward a couple of times the security guy managed to intercept the attack, knocking the guy off balance then securing a konoha gaeshi which took him down fast, and as he was falling he knocked his head on the corner of an operating table/abortion table thing and was rendered unconsciouss...The security guy explained to my Shihan that the whole time he was being attacked it felt like an outerbody experience where he actually saw himself DO what he was taught in slow motion and that everything came out as if his body just reacted to how he was taught to defend against knives. I believe he did suffer a cut or two from the assailant's thrusts. But all the while, he came out of a flight or run situation alive and not dead. I believe that in certain situation knife defenses does work and is SUPPOSED to work! I've always thought jujitsu was invented for UNARMED combat on the battlefield. And if you were to find yourself unarmed on the battlefield then you're most likely going to face someone that is ARMED and ready to KILL you.
No, I was asleep on a train and he woke me with it in front of me. I did the 'wrist grab and twist' one before I actually thought better of it and ended up with a knife tip in the shin. He took off when he saw all the blood. Second downside to the story; no one else in the train did anything about it (except one older guy when I actually managed to get off the train who asked me if I needed a ride to the hospital).
Funny it was on a train.A sensei i know was attaked with a knife (he worked at a train staition.)He did the first thing we are taught.the best knofe defence.RUN LIKE HELL. Now this guys a fast run ner but the attacker caught up with him.The sensei turned around and booted him in the knee cap. Amazingly the man got up (I've felt his kicks owwwww).I think he was seriously drunk.He then ran for a few more metres but fell to the ground in pain.Then he was taken away.
It was funny as in coincidental.It wasn't ment to be taken literally.Sorry if any offence was taken.Just becasue i knew a similar thing invloving trains.I didn't actualy laugh.It was funny as in "Weird". Sorry. Nobody helped my JJ sensei aswell.
No first-person accounts fortunately- just a brown belt describing an incident with an assailant who was high at the time. (The point of the story was not that he took the guy out, but that due to the drugs the attacker was able to walk away afterwards after a not-inconsiderable deal of damge being allegedly dealt to him.) He seemed to come out of it ok but I obviously can't say how true it is. The JJ club I train in does take a pretty fair view on realism- it wouldn't suprise me if my brown belt's tale was true. During one session of my thus far fairly limited knife training my (blue belt) partner got bored and started fully resisting- striking with the other hand, using rolling ukemis to escape twisting locks to the arm, etc. There's considered no need to hurt the tori, but making it clear that you could (eg. taking a punch to 1cm before their nose) is adequate in explaining the deficiencies in their application of technique to them.
There are 2 categories of things you can do: 1)Get as far from the knife as possible (run away, or find a weak spot and pray for a one or two hit KO). Or 2) Get as close to the knife as possible (Wrist lock, generally get knife control.) The first part of 2 works best. I also recomend getting a weapon. No you shouldn't carry around a sword or Nunchaku, lol. But something makeshift and hopefully longer works. Use a belt like a whip or nunchaku is good, also stabing their hand with a pen might make them drop the knife, if you can get close enough. The sucky thing about knives is murphies law, if he has a knife, your gonna be cut, if you have a knife, it's gonna be used against you.
try a nice distraction, not as in "oh look, an eagle", more like lobbing a bag or something at their torso. They should either get knocked back or duck and become off balance, hence missing your foot flying into their head i don't know whether this would work in a real life situation but i can't see a problem with it, if nothing else it will buy you enough time to get the hell away from there!
# Hi Apparently most knife attacks are frenzied affairs witht the attacker hyped up on adrenalin. Are you knife defences taking this into account most schools I've seen train against stepping punches holding the knife, never happens in reality. Oh by the way the second most common form of knife attack is by a knife you never see. think about it. MF
