Hi all, Here is a quick clip of Alex doing some Knife defence. Really shows the 'getting to the rear gate to take down' very well. http://www.ma-design.biz/knife_defence.mov cheers Chris
Nice clip Chris - missing Alex already - btw what's happening with the UK bagua institute and website now he's gone? Can I still buy dvds and books? I don't seem to be able to always get on the site at the moment.... :Angel:
Might work. Might not. These types of defenses look cool, and may in fact work some times. Knife wielding drug adicts might be distracted enough by this technique for it to work. I don't like it because the weapon remains in the control of the attacker. Unless the strike and subsequent strike and take down work flawlessly there is a good chance that the knife can still strike part of your body. You need to get out of the way. He did that very well. Then you need to control the weapon. He did not do that at all. If the weapon is not controlled it can be used very effectively against you. Finally, you must dissarm the attacker before any other beatings or take downs are attempted. In this clip, the defender never takes the weapon away or forces him to drop it. Like I said. Maybe this would work, but there are too many things that can go wrong with a defensive strategy such as this. There is no sure fire technique that will work every single time, but if you follow simple rules and practice them you will minimize your chances of getting cut too seriously. Get out of the line of fire. Control the weapon. Dissarm. Do what ever you want after that.
Goju Man, this is from a film me and Alex recentley taped. The main points are move, Check and destroy the attacker. the knife is inanimate, the attacker is the problem. so if you destroy the attacker they can hold the knife all they want ... an unconcious man holding a knife is just an unconcious man. From the camera Angle you can really see ... but Alex is controling my knife arm ... But not grabbing it. Grabbing also binds your hand which is fine sometimes .. but not others. Alex moves to the rear Gate, for the attacker to turn and re-attack in the same beat in reality is impossible even to switch and knick with the blade was hard. the move makes you want to defend your upper gate ... then with a hand in your face you just kinda go into a defencive reaction. Similar to the shedder concept in RBSD. Taking the weapon away from a fully on balance and consious attacker is extraordinarily difficult we show this a few times in the film. try this and you will get cut ... alot. In reality you will get cut anyway if the knife fighter is ditermined. alex talks about his friends in the phillipenes, 70 year old masters whos bodies are a patchwork of scars. Even in training they get cut .... The key things we look too do here are: 1) Move off the line of attack. 2) check the knife arm - Either distroying the limb - Or checking/controlling to minimise the cut damage if they pull back. 3) destroy the attacker - By taking them down and imobilising them or breaking their limbs - Knocking them out very fast within a couple of strikes. This clip is very isolated and i agree with what you are saying here. But when seen in context it does make good sense. Always good to hear sensible and constructive criticism. Thanks. Kindest Reagrds Chris
TJB, Hows it going buddy. the UK BAGUA site is as it was. Ordering through alex right now but I am getting a proper online store up very very soon. Within weeks. Will let everyone know when it is up. There will be some good new stuff on there. As for UK training, We are all still running classes and i will be doing some seminars. Happy training mate. take good care Chris
[The key things we look too do here are: 1) Move off the line of attack. 2) check the knife arm - Either distroying the limb - Or checking/controlling to minimise the cut damage if they pull back. 3) destroy the attacker - By taking them down and imobilising them or breaking their limbs - Knocking them out very fast within a couple of strikes. Well, we agree that there are three points. That's good. What we disagree on is whether it is better to take the weapon away or to knock some one out with one punch. Admitidly, both are very dificulty to do, but I have hit and have been hit very hard and it is not easy to knock someone out or even stop their advance with a great punch. For the sake of this discussion, let's make the assumption that we are defending against a drug adict who wants to stab you and take your wallet. (If it is a trained knife fighter we're both up s***'s creek anyway). Just as you practice your moves which do look nice and smooth, we too practice over and over again to get out of the line and then to control the weapon. (btw, these are not my techniques. I am only a 2nd dan) Control of the weapon is crucial. The attacker is totally focused on the weapon and he will do anything either by his design or by luck to poke you with it. Depending on his angle of attack there are numerous grabs and joint locks, wrist rolls, etc that will control the weapon and put you in a position of strength to make him let go. We train and train and train some more, but in the end you will do what needs to be done at the time. I believe in my sensei's teachings that keeping the three rules of; 1 -out of the line, 2- control, and 3 -dissarm will minimize failure. I want to repeat. I don't think that your video is completely worthless. That technique may indeed work very well. I just think that a superior technique would have involved the rules I have indicated above.
Liked it. I like that deflection at the moment, good against front kicks too. Been doing some Doces Pares lately and I have come to realise that chances are, you will get cut. You just have to accept that in a knife fight.
thats not knife defense... THIS is knife defense http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7925292111832234698&q=jim+carey&pl=true
Gojuman - no offence m8 but are we watching the same clip??? Alex clearly controls the knife arm and unless Chris has two-way elbow joints (which is unlikely as he has arms like popeye lol) it is extremely unlikely he could do anything serious to Alex with that knife. The vulnerable point is the switch to the rear, but as I said - I don't think Chris could do anything from that position. Once at the rear the arm is contained as you can see in the slowmo clip - as Chris goes down the knife is removed and then Alex takes it. (Which is what you were saying should happen...) It's far too easy to stand outside a situation - (clips encourage this imo) and say "oh yah but he could do this or that" Being inside it is always totally different ime - I guarantee you if Chris could have turned that around he would have. When you're in it you just get taken whatever you do....even if an observer can see a way out... I really don't understand any of the criticisms you levelled tbh - it's a goodun imo...
BWHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!! Why did I know that was going to happen. Gotta love the good 'ol Sheriff's deputy tackle! Now that's how knife weilding idiots should be dealt with!
wow!!! That was a hell of a tackle!! must have been an american football player! That was also one hell of a knife!!! chris edit: just noticed the end ... only watched to the tackle last time. Not a nice finish to the encounter.
good argument there for stun guns and the like. nice clip, Holland Park just won't be the same I've come across the other types of knife stuff goju is on about - this kind is better imo.. its the man/woman you are looking to stop. If you have to give them a small gift of your blood to take the prize (them) so be it. But knife stuff is the hardest thing - someone know what they're doing you pretty much stuffed - cos you wont know it till it's in you. or they'll use it as part of them. If they good - too much advantage. things being equal. Then your job is to shift odds around if you can, like pick up a chair if one is handy etc. You can not plan for it xyz. Just awareness is all.. maybe a touch of crazy ass ness can help..or make things worse. How much worse can it be than facing a knife wielding maniac or such? sure it's Thailand TB (northish) - planning to go this year too - maybe will cross paths. maybe. 1 week clean living & training; 1 week travel and madfun..(less said the better ) Never been there - should be cool. Will keep a keen eye out for dodgy packages -AKA TJB
yeh ZD, It Chiang Mai in northern Thailand. Really nice place too as far as i have heard. sure you will have one hell of a ball!!!! Everyone i know that went out there to traqin got alot out of it!!! The DVD we did on Knife work should be coming out in the next few months, I have to add my half and then its ready. Alex showing Basics and key principles my section is in a nightclub showing situational work and how to stay aware and safe. Hopefully will be a nice production. One of the things we talk about is being cut in a non life threatening way, making sure you check safely! Being cut is a reality that you just gotta accept, Even the likes of Master Su dong chen is a patchwork of scars ... anyone that has come up against knives in real life regularly always is..... Its the fact they are still here that shows they have skill! No doubt that if the guy is skilled with the knife then you are in trouble! cheers Chris
I look foreward to this very much as I am absolutely rubbish at knife disarms...I inevitably grab the blade and am subsequently now more scared of being confronted by a knife wielding person. :bang: Given that the area where I live has suddenly become very violent (1 man stabbed to death and 2 people stabbed during seperate street robberies in the last couple of weeks), I no longer feel safe even during daylight. To give them their due, the guys I train with are very supportive, helpful and patient, it's just me that sucks. :love:
Medway is a rough area - one of the reasons we train knife defences (even tho some may scoff lol). I've been threatened with one at the back of my house about 4 years back and many of the local chavs (chatham is birthplace of the chav btw) carry sharpened screwdrivers for punching out car doorlocks and bottling and glassing are also common. Every pub now has bouncers let alone nightclubs. When they opened a new club in Maidstone a few years back on the opening night someone got glassed and needed more than thirty stitches to their head and face!! For me, knife defence is an 'odds game' - I fully expect to get cut; the main thing is whether I just get a scar or whether I get crippled or killed. No MA technique will ever protect you 100% imo/e all you can do is try to develop an edge and move the odds in your favour.... :Angel:
Well. I watched it again to be sure. There are several things that contradict wise knife defense. 1-As the attacker lunges with his right the defender does get out of the way with his body. That's good. But, he puts his own right arm over the end of the blade as he pushes with his left hand in a deflection move. This move runs a real risk of driving the knife into his own arm. 2-The weapon is not controlled at all. The defender goes behind ( I don't understand how the attacker's left arm goes in front of his throat, but anyway) and seems to grab the head and chin to throw the attacker. This is a good throw of course, but not while someone holds a knife. 3-Once the defender has floored the attacker he grabs the knife holder's wrist and makes a move indicating that he will dislocate the attacker's elbow over his knee. That will work of course, but look at the grip the defender has on the wrist. He has his thumb up and is pulling down. In all likelyhood his grip would come loose before the elbow dislocates. To do this elbow break the defender has to put his hand on top of the wrist and then push down. This will most definitely break the elbow. I know I sound like a broken record, but 1-Get out of the line of fire 2-control the weapon 3-Dissarm This applys to any weapon defense. Not just for the knife, but gun too.
Single grabs do not work. Grabbing and striking does not work. Look how ineffective strikes are from in close next time you watch a cage fight on TV. You would never knock someone out enough to gain control. You can with the proper two handed grip control the knife holding wrist. You definitely do not want to take a slice into your arm and in the video the defender deflects the blade with his left and then goes over the end of the knife with his right arm. Very dangerous move. This is a straight thrust attack. For that circumstance one of the best defenses is to step to the left as seen on the video and then deflect the wrist past you with both hands keeping your right elbow up and your left down. As soon as the deflection happens grab the wrist with your right hand and snake your left arm around his outstretched arm over his bicept and behind his elbow. Now with your left providing a folcrum and your right hand on top of his wrist you can push down and should be able to effectively break or dislocate his elbow forcing him to drop the knife. Now you can effectively smash him all you want with out fear of getting cut. ****This is a big point. This technique will not be the best technique if your attacker is more than 20 lbs heavier than you. If you are attacked by a fat guy your best bet is to grab the wrist with both hands after the deflection and turn under his elbow wo that you can break his elbow over your shoulder by pulling down. You have to ensure that his elbow is facing the right way of course. Otherwise you will just stab yourself. This technique will not be the best if your attacker is shorter than you by too much. If a shrimp attacks you there are other techniques. I could go on and on, but I'm tired of typing.:-( Bottom line. All of the techniques that will work satisfy the three rules previously mentioned.
Hey goju, I think you might have replied to a post i deleted for the same reasons there are too many variable to have any conclusive way.. on those 'rules'.. I've practice similar on occasion, but maybe i'd go for a strike at the 'same' time anyway even a sweep maybe a double strike(one to limb with weapon for check) - and getting round the back is great.. every situation would be different. 'no fixed position'
