Ok, so through the study of qigong don't you go through a phase where your perceptions of the world are changed. I'll go out on a limb here and say that you do. So there you have it. Ki manifesting as a state of mind. I study Ki Aikido. A large part of which is ki development. A part of that is Kiatsu. Take a look at Koichi Toheis' "Ki In Daily Life" ISBN 4-88996-071-6 and "Kiatsu" ISBN 4-88996-086-4. You'll see very clearly that Koichi Tohei also teaches that ki is something we take from the univers around us. In fact he beleives without ki you'd be dead. In Ki Aikido we call this "the one point". In other styles it's the center or hara. I think you should be a bit less defensive and read what i post instead of just glancing over it.
Hara was thought to be of such importance in the past that I heard that some schools actually devoted basically all their teaching around the concept. I'll do some checking up on my sources, but apparently it became quite a political subject as to how important and useful such study is in practical application. Sort of the equivalent of the discussions on this forum but several hundred years ago and sometimes leading to actual fighting.
From my perspective understanding ones' center is critical. It is literally your center of gravity. A part of what ki development is all about is developing a more stable center of gravity that is difficult for an opponent to take.
Actually there are 139 different ways to write KI using the Japanese language, so no, the're not all written using the "same" Chinese charactor. Regards
Hahahaha... Don't lecture me on the number of homonyms in the Japanese language. Since I speak Japanese I'm well aware of them. There are probably more than 139 if you use a big enough dictionary. There is no debating, however, that the "ki" used in the word "Aikido" is the same character as used in the Chinese concept of "qi."
OOh a wee bit defensive there mate ? Easy tiger Actually you said and I quote No mention of the word AIKIDO in that paragraph, you specifically mentioned "Japanese concept" which is a far broader statement which brought about my "139 ways" reply. Regards
Maybe Shakyamuni Buddha had it, maybe Shaolin monks have it, maybe O Sensei had it, but maybe......the only way to KNOW is if you feel it. All I know is that everything I've read seems to boil down to defining Chi/Ki as a life force (or universal life force) which we may be able to direct or channel. IMHO that means if I have it I'm alive and I can make use of it. I personally believe training does bring access to an energy source which is more than just biomechanical but science may yet be able to explain how O Sensei or Shaolin monks seemed able to perform 'superhuman' MA techniques. I've also read about using Ki as part of Aikido. I think I've felt it when practising, but I've no idea if my Ki is at all like your Ki. It also means that nobody can tell if I use it in my aikido or not. I'm not even sure that 'Aikido' as a word has anything to do with using Ki in techniques, but simply means harmonising yourself with the energy you meet from others and from the universe in general. Maybe there's a leap too far in assuming that just because instructors talk about using your ki in a technique that this is where the 'ki' in 'aikido' came from. After all, don't the Japanese talk about ki in just about every context, including their latest cough or cold? I can't argue with anyone on this thread because, far from thinking of 139 ways of expressing Ki as a homonym, I am forced back to my Buddhist ideaology that everyone's reality is different and that therefore there must be as many definitions of what Ki is and how it feels as there are people alive to feel it - billions. I also doubt that the Chinese/Japanese differences are really that relevant just because the word is similar - IMHO India has an equal claim to fame in this context. I'm now confused and in need of Ki beer.
Interesting mate, very interesting. A Japanese colleague gave me a dharma (sp?) doll recently which now sits in my dojo; I'd be interested in discussing Zen as I'm doing some research in to this subject before training in San Diego next year
Ki=? in the martial arts True, but this thread is about the "ki" in "Aikido," isn't it? Also, I don't think there are any other characters pronounced "ki" in Japanese that would mean anything that could be confused with the ki/qi in martial arts. Let's see... tree, yellow, period of time, basis, opportunity, vessel, joy, flag, clothing... nope, no other "ki"s in my Japanese dictionary that could be a martial arts term...
Certain styles? What are their names? I didn't know there were multiple "styles of AJJ" in existence.
The only two (not that i'm an authority on the subject) that I'm aware of are: Daito Ryu Kaze Arashi Ryu Anymore for anymore that you know of Nick ?
I believe there is also Yanagi-ryu, which was inherited by Don Angier of the USA. I've never met him, but he has, I believe, an excellent reputation.
Is this system considered 'Koryu' by Japanese definition ? Not that I wish to appear disrespectful in ANY way, as this is an expression of a legitimate 'concern' but, as soon as I start reading "Grandmaster" etc in relation to western individuals, I get slightly cautious, that and the fact the school claims four years of "two or three times a week" attendance will be enough to reach shodan. Regarding "Kyoshi" as a title 'Kyoshi' ... meaning Instructor for Warrior, or Master Instructor, it doesn't to the best of my knowledge mean Grandmaster. Regards
Dave Humm & Zen: I'll PM you Dave, to avoid cluttering up this thread! As for Daitoryu Aikijujutsu, Okabayashi Sensei is awesome. I'm sure none of his students could ever 'rubbish' Aikido. When he taught at our club some years ago his style of AJJ was very close to Yoshinkan, only even more linear. He also wore a katana for much of the time when teaching, a beautiful and powerful reminder of how techniques evolved.
Dave: This is too long for a PM and you have requested no emails, so here goes (others can also chip in now, too!): Forgive me repeating any stuff you know already! The thread is discussing 'Ki'. My argument is that we all have a perception of it which is unique and therefore very hard to describe. Zen, like all Buddhism, treats reality almost as a personal fantasy we can tweak to suit ourselves: I now practice a form of Mahayana Buddhism which has Tibetan roots and mixes the ‘best’ of basic ‘Lam Rim’ with advanced ‘Tantra’ in the pursuit of wisdom, bliss and emptiness on the path to enlightenment (not my words, I hasten to add). Zen, like Tantra, seeks to enter the mind of the student by subterfuge, tricking it into realising that we are all empty of ‘inherent existence’ and that our minds contain the whole universe. The ONLY reality is entirely a personal one. If we change our own perception of reality, we can change our world. In MA terms, our response to an attack is all about our perception – fushin or fudoshin (‘no mind’ action or a confused mind of panic). If Zen has an application it is in shocking the mind into accepting that everything we sense is only real if we want it to be. Fear, anger and all those responses which destroy a good defence are then more easily controlled. In Zen, ‘koans’ (e.g. the sound of one hand clapping) are used as riddles to focus the mind and lead to sudden revelations. The meditation practice is seated and walking, again with a single focus. In addition, ‘Mysogi’ purification / mental focus was taught to Eddie Stratton in Japan and was part of the Shudokan formalities in every session of training (after a physical warm-up), as a Zen-based discipline. Personally, I believe it has a far wider spiritual meaning, but it certainly worked as a short exercise to focus the mind before training. Tantra, which I now practice, (forget the tantric sex!) achieves the same end by teaching the student to empty the mind of any awareness of themselves in order for them to focus on a particular Buddha (maybe Medicine Buddha or Vajrapani – power and courage) and ‘become’ them in all respects in daily life. The brain learns new ways to perceive reality. (I think of this as similar to a using a hypnotist, who can reprogramme the brain to lose an inhibition or a fear.) A Sensei of mine, Tony Doubleday, wrote some excellent articles on Zen in the Martial Arts ,especially Aikido, but the Shudokan website does not, sadly, offer them now. His general introduction book is easy to obtain, however. (He is now a senior director at the British Museum and might be contactable there): ELEMENTS OF ZEN (DAVID SCOTT AND TONY DOUBLEDAY) The mix of ‘Kongo’ Zen in Shorinji Kempo is also very interesting, as this is an organisation listed in Japan as a religion rather than an MA. OTHER GOOD SOURCE BOOKS: THE UNFETTERED MIND (Writings of the Zen Master to the Sword Master) Takuan Soho pub. Kodansha ESSENTIAL ZEN: Kazuaki Tanahashi & Tensho David Schneider pub. Castle Books (Harper Collins) THOMAS CLEARY – many books including MINDING MIND (meditation) and ZEN FLESH, ZEN BONES SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI (writings of the founder of Soto Zen, includes Zen lineage chart) Eihei Dogen Zenji pub. Kyoto Soto Zen Center SHIKANTANZA (An Introduction to Zazen meditation) Ed.: Shohaku Okamura pub. Kyoto Soto Zen Center OTHER RELIGIONS RE. JAPANESE M.A. Of course, Buddhism also accommodated whichever local religion it came across, so Shinto tends to be inextricably linked with Japanese beliefs. They say the Japanese marry etc in Shinto but funerals are Buddhists (hedge your bets??) I have the website address of the Oomoto organisation O Sensei helped form if you want it also: http://www.oomoto.or.jp/English/index-en.html Hope this gives you a few leads! Iaido must also be rich in this respect (see The Unfettered Mind).
I'm the same ... even more so about the title "soke." Incidentally, the man I mentioned earlier, Don Angier, is probably one of the only if not THE only Westerner that can correctly be called a genuine soke. (But strangely enough he doesn't seem to be on any of the soke councils .)
Hi... As I said in my post I did not intend to be seen as disrespectful, merely expressing an opinion based on experiences of people (westerners) who call themselves "grandmaster" etc I'm pleased that you have a place to train and enjoy your study. Regards
Hi mate sorry for the 'no email' option, that has been changed so feel free to contact me via that option. Thanks for your time on this Regards
